2021 MUSTANG (S650) - 7th Generation Mustang Confirmed

Spirit Of Fire said:

Let’s not confuse brand recognition/awareness with “heritage.” Same reason people know about Walmart is the same reason I’d say the vast majority of people know about the mustang, it’s popular and it has been around for a while. I’m sure a lot of people buy mustangs for the same reason as well. It could look however it wants to look, as long as it’s name remains a mustang.

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It's probably a confluence of things. Picking "heritage" apart, not every Mustang has carried forward equal amounts -- I think specifically of the foxbody: it was offered with a V8, and responsible for the fabled 5.0 moniker (although I think it was first offered in the Mustang II) -- I think the fox is a generation that added to the heritage, and we see it on our 5.0 badges today -- but the design language at the time was way less "Mustang" than arguably any other before or after -- but it was still a rear-drive, long-hood coupe with an available V8.

If we count the aftermarket strength as something that's a part of heritage, it's a double-edged sword -- yes, I've modified my car. Yes, I have more plans for it. Yes, I enjoy a strong aftermarket... But some of the mods people make to their cars make me uncomfortable for some reason -- some are as bad as the civic owner that puts on everything in the "rice aisle" at your favorite car parts store on. My car isn't a Fiero-based kit car, or riced-out import -- but it will never be an Aston Martin, Porsche, Ferrari, etc.

I have mixed feelings about being in, or having people own me being in the Mustang "tribe" -- it's mostly fun, but sometimes awkward. I'm particular about cars, and not every Mustang is cool -- and not every Mustang owner is cool.

The substance and value is what really sold me -- that and have you seen these things? They look great. Being a first-time Mustang owner, if I could have gotten as much elsewhere without it being a Mustang, I might have.

68fbjjz109 said:

Please define all new, majority "all new vehicles" are far from that in reality.

I wouldn't even call S550 all new from SN197, I would guess it effectually is an 75% 90% tear up. I doubt Ford wants to spend a Billion dollars on platform with one vehicle on it. I would put money its a slight evolution if that. You just don't get that much return on investment, engineering validation is expensive. I would love to be wrong.

Because from an Architecture standpoint the all new 2015 F150, is a 2014 with the appropriate changes to build in aluminum.

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Do you even know what sn197, or s550 means..?

Your remarks are absurd.

68fbjjz109 said:

I wouldn't even call S550 all new from SN197, I would guess it effectually is an 75% 90% tear up. I doubt Ford wants to spend a Billion dollars on platform with one vehicle on it. I would put money its a slight evolution if that. You just don't get that much return on investment, engineering validation is expensive.

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"S197' :-)

Yes, I believe Ford would spend 1 billion dollars on the S550. There was a reference to that figure in "The Faster Horse" movie. In "Mustang 2015", it was specifically mentioned about the changes needed to get the stance. Reworking or clean sheet, no doubts people figure out what amortizes over the life of this car.

"All new" has to be taken into context. When every panel is new, and suspension and interior have also been totally changed, I would class that as all new. You will always have carry-over parts with just about every all-new model.

Ace said:

I hope not, Pony cars should stay true to their heritage with a more angular and strong appearance. We have more than enough rounded sport coupes

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I agree. Bob Lutz nailed it when he said Ford hit the mark with S550. He said it would have been a success even without IRS due to its body's design. Ford need to incorporate elements from S550 into whatever the trendy character lines are going to be in 5+ years time. It needs to remain a Mustang, and now that it's sharing a platform, it will certainly remain relatively affordable, which is its other draw card.

Topnotch said:

https://www.uqm.com/English/investo...VM-Program-by-Ford-Motor-Company/default.aspx

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EV tech is the future, and there is nothing we can do to stop it from happening. It's best to simply embrace it.

At this point, with most European nations setting 2030-2040 timelines to completely outlaw new combustion vehicles, I would be shocked if the S650 didn't have some EV component at an upper trim level.

The reason for Ford investing in this is likely primarily for Fusion/Focus EV trims, and perhaps to bring in the Ford Model E that they've held a trademark for for some time (one that Elon Musk desperately wanted to acquire to ad to his S, X, and Y lineup - he settled for the 3).

If there is any hint that Ford will slap a pair of electric motors on the front axle of a Mustang and combine it with a RWD combustion engine, I will likely hold out for that vehicle...though I may have to hold out for some time, as the MSRP of such a vehicle could be incredibly high.

Bravo said:

EV tech is the future, and there is nothing we can do to stop it from happening. It's best to simply embrace it.

At this point, with most European nations setting 2030-2040 timelines to completely outlaw new combustion vehicles, I would be shocked if the S650 didn't have some EV component at an upper trim level.

The reason for Ford investing in this is likely primarily for Fusion/Focus EV trims, and perhaps to bring in the Ford Model E that they've held a trademark for for some time (one that Elon Musk desperately wanted to acquire to ad to his S, X, and Y lineup - he settled for the 3).

If there is any hint that Ford will slap a pair of electric motors on the front axle of a Mustang and combine it with a RWD combustion engine, I will likely hold out for that vehicle...though I may have to hold out for some time, as the MSRP of such a vehicle could be incredibly high.

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They are definitely not going anywhere, this is an interesting article about the trend in spite the relatively low EV sales in the U.S.

https://www.designnews.com/automotive-0/ev-trend-now-irreversible/142883558457601

Great article...
Will this technology be understood, accepted and embraced wholeheartedly by the American consumer?
Will the average Joe "get it"?
Eventually I suppose, we won't have a choice.
It's an expensive gamble.
The last sentence of the article asks the multi-billion dollar question.

Falc'man said:

"All new" has to be taken into context. When every panel is new, and suspension and interior have also been totally changed, I would class that as all new. You will always have carry-over parts with just about every all-new model.

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YOU... as in your opinion (or others), do not get to personally classify what is all new. The CHASSIS does...!
ie: BMW's e36 & e46 chassis, etc.

Again, it doesn't matter if the new design resembles the previous car, or if it keeps the design cues (DNA of the brand), or goes off in an all new direction like the Camaro did during it's movie debuts days. But again, what makes it new model, is when it has a newly designed chassis. Where tons of engineering went into design goals, of how to make this gen, better than last gen, etc. Incredible amounts of number crunching & engineering going on. With their specific metrics & goals in mind. All the stuff farther down the list & within budget will be (re)designed, to assist in those metric & goals. Even if two different generation of BMW/Mustangs shared the same engine.

It's all new. The S650 will have to be reengineered/designed too. With a chassis built for it's hybrid power design.


Also, 100% new, is a different story.
Just like people are forgetting that the new gen3 Coyote is 99% new engine & drives different.

mikeyjobu said:

I have mixed feelings about being in, or having people own me being in the Mustang "tribe" -- it's mostly fun, but sometimes awkward. I'm particular about cars, and not every Mustang is cool -- and not every Mustang owner is cool.

The substance and value is what really sold me -- that and have you seen these things? They look great. Being a first-time Mustang owner, if I could have gotten as much elsewhere without it being a Mustang, I might have.

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This is very well put, and I feel the exact same way. When I first told people I got a Mustang people were surprised, shocked, and a few even said they were disappointed.

I hate being lumped into the 'tribe' as well. I literally could not have said it any better myself.

Spirit Of Fire said:

This is how you design a car. Not the crap Ford is experimenting with these days. What the new Mustang should have looked like from the front.

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If Audi and Volvo made a Mustang that would be it. Propelled by a 3 cyl turbo diesel.

Yea you can keep that.

Bravo said:

EV tech is the future, and there is nothing we can do to stop it from happening. It's best to simply embrace it.

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I 100% disagree with both of those statements. They seem pretty foolish to me, actually.

I agree that it's likely that in the future some crooked politicians and greedy corporations probably will try to make me buy something I don't want. It's best for me to speak out publicly and fight tooth and nail against it. I will definitely vote against politicians that have taken bribes or for some other reason believe that electric vehicles are good for the environment or better in some way than vehicles with ICEs.

5-OH said:

If Audi and Volvo made a Mustang that would be it. Propelled by a 3 cyl turbo diesel.

Yea you can keep that.

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It definitely looks like a Mustang ripoff. I agree on not wanting a 3 cylinder turbo diesel engine as well.

Hack said:

I 100% disagree with both of those statements. They seem pretty foolish to me, actually.

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You're allowed to have your own opinion ;)

Change is hard. The problem is that change happens whether we want it to or not.

The evolution of transportation has happened for various reasons over the past thousand years, but one thing remains true - it happens because new modes are more efficient and cost effective.

As someone in the tech industry, I can promise you that engineers don't develop products to make your life more miserable

There were people that were terrified of giving up a horse for a vehicle powered by explosions, and there will be people that will hate the idea of driving a battery operated vehicle (or worse, having a battery operated vehicle drive by itself).

It's all coming - sit back and enjoy the ride

w3rkn said:

Do you even know what sn197, or s550 means..?

Your remarks are absurd.

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Yes I do, it refers to iterations. I am also very familiar with what actually constitutes vehicle architectures. It's one of the services the company I work provides to other OEMs.

What an OEM will declare about a platform is not necessarily indicative of what physically rolls of the assembly line.

What is carryover, common, modified, or new coupled with the manufacturing processes is what really defines a vehicle architecture.

Every OEM does it differently, but there is most certainly trends and legacy designs consider and internal best practices.

That being said. Please read all the posts, I legitimately forget about D6R. Even though I have commented on it in the past.

However I am curious. I have pretty good contacts at Ford. While body structure is not their responsibility, they are required to design around it for S650.

So their comments to me could be taking to ways. There is still alot of legacy S550 considerations being used, which could be the Mustang flexing aspects of D6R. Or something has changed and maybe it's not going on that platform.

I find that uncommon from Ford giving how they interact with some suppliers for far future state and such. But, from the clients we work with vehicle programs do sometimes change in a big way.