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TOE-LINK NVH Issues and Resolutions: Clunking and Knocking

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BMR Tech

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If you have excessive NVH within your toe-link mounting system, there is a good chance that the issue stems from:

1: Improper Installation
2: Dual Bearing Ends (M-5A460-M Knuckle Bearing Upgrade)
3: Defective or Faulty Bearing/s -OR- excessive contamination
4: Hardware comes loose

IMPROPER INSTALLATION:

It is very important when you upgrade your Toe-Links with the available aftermarket Toe Links, to ensure the components are installed properly.

To do so, the links need to be installed and everything needs to be tightened with the car sitting on it's own weight. (drive-on lift, ramps, etc)

When doing so, you need to TRIPLE check to make sure the subframe mount side with the bearing is indexed properly. Images below show a misaligned bearing versus a properly indexed and aligned bearing.

DUAL BEARING ENDS:

When you upgrade to the M-5A460-M or any other KNUCKLE SIDE bearing, you now introduce the ability for the toe link to pivot/twist and it can occasionally "bottom out" and cause knocking or clunking.

The best way to try and prevent this is to ensure the parts are installed in a fashion that BOTH ends are centered - so the link will have a larger range of travel when twisting.

Pictured below is a bushing I made up, which shows the bearing only being able to move just a small amount before contacting the polyurethane. This contact to the poly is much quieter than the contact of the bearing races to the mounts or sleeves.

DEFECTIVE -or- CONTAMINATED BEARINGS:

Occasionally when you get excessive NVH with an open bearing, you will notice the bearing side of the mounts can feel too tight or make a popping or loud pitched groan sound when you rotate the link.

This can be a few things. Typically it is excessive contamination. This can be caused by environment or simply going through a car wash that washes underneath the vehicle, then a few minutes down the road you can have dirt/grime/dust start making it's way onto the bearing and so on and so forth. Moisture, dirt/grime/dust and lack of maintenance (ensuring they stay clean) can sometimes cause issues EVEN THOUGH the bearings are injected with special materials to help prevent this, and also made with precision.

The various style bearings all have their pros and cons. We ship out over 50,000 bearings each year for various applications on various components. Of those, we use various brands and various styles with various inner-linings. Teflon / PTFE, "Kevlar", Bronze Impregnated, grease-lined etc etc etc.

Most of the applications end up using a PTFE/Teflon liner. This arrangement for us has proven to be the most effective for both availability, performance and durability. We have recorded many cases where our customers have well over 100,000 miles on the bearings we supply in our products.

When a customer approaches me about a noisy bearing, specifically for this topic (Toe Links) I usually have a process for them to try and isolate the exact issue:

First: Check all fasteners for proper torque. Mounting hardware and jam nuts, etc.

Second: Apply force to the link to see if it will move. Fore, aft, lateral, vertical etc. Then see if the link twists easily.

Third: Clean and dry the bearings. Once dry, apply a wax like lubricant and protectant. I prefer the Amsoil MPHD, I apply this to all of my open bearings on all of my vehicles:

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...nts/heavy-duty-metal-protector/?code=AMHSC-EA

Usually this does the trick. In rare cases I have them use an actual grease if we need instant results (remove the outer knuckle bolt, drop the U-bracket end down, clean & apply grease and rotate the bearing to work the contaminants out while temporarily lubricating)

Of course, IF this only works temporarily I will usually send the customer out a new bearing to resolve the issue. Most times, this method above takes care of the issue and the only maintenance required from that point on is to just occasionally inspect and clean excessive contamination from the bearing.

HARDWARE COMES LOOSE:

This is usually the result of improper installation, and is on the rare side - but it DOES happen.

Many times I have customers who have clunks, and the issue ends up being the jam nuts on the center adjuster comes loose. This is always discovered during the troubleshooting process as I specifically tell the user to inspect all mounting fasteners and jam nuts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although I have seen these issues with several of the available options, I am not specifically referring to any one company or style product. I am making this thread simply because I know this is an issue that people deal with when upgrading their factory toe-links in favor of aftermarket adjustable pieces with a non-sealed inner bearing mount.

I hope this thread helps some of you.

If you have ANY questions, please do not hesitate to ask. :thumbsup:

IMAGE1: Improper installation of Toe Link. This will cause very noticeable popping and clunking during suspension travel due to the bearing housing bottoming out on the bolt sleeves.
Resolution: Loosen jam nuts, turn bearing to where it is indexed properly and re-tighten.

IMAGE2:
Improper indexing versus proper indexing.
Occurences: When improperly installed, OR when a bearing is on the knuckle side as well as the toe link.
Resolutions: Use something to stop the metal-to-metal contacting, such as the bushing I show in IMAGE3. Or just ignore the sounds if you are that kinda person. :crazy:

IMAGE3 / IMAGE4 (non S550 part): Bushing installed to limit bearing travel and eliminate knocking from metal-to-metal contact.

IMAGE5: Amsoil MPHD for troubelshooting and resolving bearing noises during suspension travel and articulation.
TR005 Crooked.jpg
Misaligned and Aligned 1.jpg
Bearing Silencer TR005.jpg
Bearing Silencer Bushings.jpg
Amsoil MPHD.jpg
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5ABI VT

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Curious how pronounced the knocking or clinking is? I have a new noise.. and did just recently have an alignment and have a feeling this may be the issue as they may not be centered. Will check tomorrow !!
 

Burkey

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Kelly, how do I get my hands on the poly bushing you show there?
 

dope

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[MENTION=9985]BMR Tech[/MENTION] Where can I purchase the red bushing? I'm getting this annoying clunking/knocking sound from the FP toe knuckle bearing. Thank you!

[MENTION=21513]Burkey[/MENTION] Did you ever find a solution?
 

Burkey

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[MENTION=9985]BMR Tech[/MENTION] Where can I purchase the red bushing? I'm getting this annoying clunking/knocking sound from the FP toe knuckle bearing. Thank you!

[MENTION=21513]Burkey[/MENTION] Did you ever find a solution?
As a matter of fact I did....
The bearings had bound up due to crud (could NOT rotate them at all by hand).
Sprayed them and twisted them in-situ (I have the FR toe/knuckle bearing also) and took it for a spin, all good.
A few months later, it was back.
Removed them, cleaned the living shit out of them, smothered them in grease, fitted “seals-it” RERS3 boots over the rod ends, never to be heard from again.
That was at least six months ago.
Honestly, I think they should just supply them with the boots pre-installed.
It would save a whole heap of BS. :cheers:
If you’re doing them from scratch, just fit them and be done with it. Too cheap to muck around with. :thumbsup:
 

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khalismatic

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If you have excessive NVH within your toe-link mounting system, there is a good chance that the issue stems from:

1: Improper Installation
2: Dual Bearing Ends (M-5A460-M Knuckle Bearing Upgrade)
3: Defective or Faulty Bearing/s -OR- excessive contamination
4: Hardware comes loose

IMPROPER INSTALLATION:

It is very important when you upgrade your Toe-Links with the available aftermarket Toe Links, to ensure the components are installed properly.

To do so, the links need to be installed and everything needs to be tightened with the car sitting on it's own weight. (drive-on lift, ramps, etc)

When doing so, you need to TRIPLE check to make sure the subframe mount side with the bearing is indexed properly. Images below show a misaligned bearing versus a properly indexed and aligned bearing.

DUAL BEARING ENDS:

When you upgrade to the M-5A460-M or any other KNUCKLE SIDE bearing, you now introduce the ability for the toe link to pivot/twist and it can occasionally "bottom out" and cause knocking or clunking.

The best way to try and prevent this is to ensure the parts are installed in a fashion that BOTH ends are centered - so the link will have a larger range of travel when twisting.

Pictured below is a bushing I made up, which shows the bearing only being able to move just a small amount before contacting the polyurethane. This contact to the poly is much quieter than the contact of the bearing races to the mounts or sleeves.

DEFECTIVE -or- CONTAMINATED BEARINGS:

Occasionally when you get excessive NVH with an open bearing, you will notice the bearing side of the mounts can feel too tight or make a popping or loud pitched groan sound when you rotate the link.

This can be a few things. Typically it is excessive contamination. This can be caused by environment or simply going through a car wash that washes underneath the vehicle, then a few minutes down the road you can have dirt/grime/dust start making it's way onto the bearing and so on and so forth. Moisture, dirt/grime/dust and lack of maintenance (ensuring they stay clean) can sometimes cause issues EVEN THOUGH the bearings are injected with special materials to help prevent this, and also made with precision.

The various style bearings all have their pros and cons. We ship out over 50,000 bearings each year for various applications on various components. Of those, we use various brands and various styles with various inner-linings. Teflon / PTFE, "Kevlar", Bronze Impregnated, grease-lined etc etc etc.

Most of the applications end up using a PTFE/Teflon liner. This arrangement for us has proven to be the most effective for both availability, performance and durability. We have recorded many cases where our customers have well over 100,000 miles on the bearings we supply in our products.

When a customer approaches me about a noisy bearing, specifically for this topic (Toe Links) I usually have a process for them to try and isolate the exact issue:

First: Check all fasteners for proper torque. Mounting hardware and jam nuts, etc.

Second: Apply force to the link to see if it will move. Fore, aft, lateral, vertical etc. Then see if the link twists easily.

Third: Clean and dry the bearings. Once dry, apply a wax like lubricant and protectant. I prefer the Amsoil MPHD, I apply this to all of my open bearings on all of my vehicles:

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...nts/heavy-duty-metal-protector/?code=AMHSC-EA

Usually this does the trick. In rare cases I have them use an actual grease if we need instant results (remove the outer knuckle bolt, drop the U-bracket end down, clean & apply grease and rotate the bearing to work the contaminants out while temporarily lubricating)

Of course, IF this only works temporarily I will usually send the customer out a new bearing to resolve the issue. Most times, this method above takes care of the issue and the only maintenance required from that point on is to just occasionally inspect and clean excessive contamination from the bearing.

HARDWARE COMES LOOSE:

This is usually the result of improper installation, and is on the rare side - but it DOES happen.

Many times I have customers who have clunks, and the issue ends up being the jam nuts on the center adjuster comes loose. This is always discovered during the troubleshooting process as I specifically tell the user to inspect all mounting fasteners and jam nuts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although I have seen these issues with several of the available options, I am not specifically referring to any one company or style product. I am making this thread simply because I know this is an issue that people deal with when upgrading their factory toe-links in favor of aftermarket adjustable pieces with a non-sealed inner bearing mount.

I hope this thread helps some of you.

If you have ANY questions, please do not hesitate to ask. :thumbsup:

IMAGE1: Improper installation of Toe Link. This will cause very noticeable popping and clunking during suspension travel due to the bearing housing bottoming out on the bolt sleeves.
Resolution: Loosen jam nuts, turn bearing to where it is indexed properly and re-tighten.

IMAGE2:
Improper indexing versus proper indexing.
Occurences: When improperly installed, OR when a bearing is on the knuckle side as well as the toe link.
Resolutions: Use something to stop the metal-to-metal contacting, such as the bushing I show in IMAGE3. Or just ignore the sounds if you are that kinda person. :crazy:

IMAGE3 / IMAGE4 (non S550 part): Bushing installed to limit bearing travel and eliminate knocking from metal-to-metal contact.

IMAGE5: Amsoil MPHD for troubelshooting and resolving bearing noises during suspension travel and articulation.
TR005 Crooked.jpg
Misaligned and Aligned 1.jpg
Bearing Silencer TR005.jpg
Bearing Silencer Bushings.jpg
Amsoil MPHD.jpg
Where can we find the bushing shown in IMAGE3 / IMAGE4 (non S550 part)?
 

The01

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If you have excessive NVH within your toe-link mounting system, there is a good chance that the issue stems from:

1: Improper Installation
2: Dual Bearing Ends (M-5A460-M Knuckle Bearing Upgrade)
3: Defective or Faulty Bearing/s -OR- excessive contamination
4: Hardware comes loose

IMPROPER INSTALLATION:

It is very important when you upgrade your Toe-Links with the available aftermarket Toe Links, to ensure the components are installed properly.

To do so, the links need to be installed and everything needs to be tightened with the car sitting on it's own weight. (drive-on lift, ramps, etc)

When doing so, you need to TRIPLE check to make sure the subframe mount side with the bearing is indexed properly. Images below show a misaligned bearing versus a properly indexed and aligned bearing.

DUAL BEARING ENDS:

When you upgrade to the M-5A460-M or any other KNUCKLE SIDE bearing, you now introduce the ability for the toe link to pivot/twist and it can occasionally "bottom out" and cause knocking or clunking.

The best way to try and prevent this is to ensure the parts are installed in a fashion that BOTH ends are centered - so the link will have a larger range of travel when twisting.

Pictured below is a bushing I made up, which shows the bearing only being able to move just a small amount before contacting the polyurethane. This contact to the poly is much quieter than the contact of the bearing races to the mounts or sleeves.

DEFECTIVE -or- CONTAMINATED BEARINGS:

Occasionally when you get excessive NVH with an open bearing, you will notice the bearing side of the mounts can feel too tight or make a popping or loud pitched groan sound when you rotate the link.

This can be a few things. Typically it is excessive contamination. This can be caused by environment or simply going through a car wash that washes underneath the vehicle, then a few minutes down the road you can have dirt/grime/dust start making it's way onto the bearing and so on and so forth. Moisture, dirt/grime/dust and lack of maintenance (ensuring they stay clean) can sometimes cause issues EVEN THOUGH the bearings are injected with special materials to help prevent this, and also made with precision.

The various style bearings all have their pros and cons. We ship out over 50,000 bearings each year for various applications on various components. Of those, we use various brands and various styles with various inner-linings. Teflon / PTFE, "Kevlar", Bronze Impregnated, grease-lined etc etc etc.

Most of the applications end up using a PTFE/Teflon liner. This arrangement for us has proven to be the most effective for both availability, performance and durability. We have recorded many cases where our customers have well over 100,000 miles on the bearings we supply in our products.

When a customer approaches me about a noisy bearing, specifically for this topic (Toe Links) I usually have a process for them to try and isolate the exact issue:

First: Check all fasteners for proper torque. Mounting hardware and jam nuts, etc.

Second: Apply force to the link to see if it will move. Fore, aft, lateral, vertical etc. Then see if the link twists easily.

Third: Clean and dry the bearings. Once dry, apply a wax like lubricant and protectant. I prefer the Amsoil MPHD, I apply this to all of my open bearings on all of my vehicles:

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...nts/heavy-duty-metal-protector/?code=AMHSC-EA

Usually this does the trick. In rare cases I have them use an actual grease if we need instant results (remove the outer knuckle bolt, drop the U-bracket end down, clean & apply grease and rotate the bearing to work the contaminants out while temporarily lubricating)

Of course, IF this only works temporarily I will usually send the customer out a new bearing to resolve the issue. Most times, this method above takes care of the issue and the only maintenance required from that point on is to just occasionally inspect and clean excessive contamination from the bearing.

HARDWARE COMES LOOSE:

This is usually the result of improper installation, and is on the rare side - but it DOES happen.

Many times I have customers who have clunks, and the issue ends up being the jam nuts on the center adjuster comes loose. This is always discovered during the troubleshooting process as I specifically tell the user to inspect all mounting fasteners and jam nuts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although I have seen these issues with several of the available options, I am not specifically referring to any one company or style product. I am making this thread simply because I know this is an issue that people deal with when upgrading their factory toe-links in favor of aftermarket adjustable pieces with a non-sealed inner bearing mount.

I hope this thread helps some of you.

If you have ANY questions, please do not hesitate to ask. :thumbsup:

IMAGE1: Improper installation of Toe Link. This will cause very noticeable popping and clunking during suspension travel due to the bearing housing bottoming out on the bolt sleeves.
Resolution: Loosen jam nuts, turn bearing to where it is indexed properly and re-tighten.

IMAGE2:
Improper indexing versus proper indexing.
Occurences: When improperly installed, OR when a bearing is on the knuckle side as well as the toe link.
Resolutions: Use something to stop the metal-to-metal contacting, such as the bushing I show in IMAGE3. Or just ignore the sounds if you are that kinda person. :crazy:

IMAGE3 / IMAGE4 (non S550 part): Bushing installed to limit bearing travel and eliminate knocking from metal-to-metal contact.

IMAGE5: Amsoil MPHD for troubelshooting and resolving bearing noises during suspension travel and articulation.
TR005 Crooked.jpg
Misaligned and Aligned 1.jpg
Bearing Silencer TR005.jpg
Bearing Silencer Bushings.jpg
Amsoil MPHD.jpg

Info on that bushing?
 

Burkey

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As a matter of fact I did....
The bearings had bound up due to crud (could NOT rotate them at all by hand).
Sprayed them and twisted them in-situ (I have the FR toe/knuckle bearing also) and took it for a spin, all good.
A few months later, it was back.
Removed them, cleaned the living shit out of them, smothered them in grease, fitted “seals-it” RERS3 boots over the rod ends, never to be heard from again.
That was at least six months ago.
Honestly, I think they should just supply them with the boots pre-installed.
It would save a whole heap of BS. :cheers:
If you’re doing them from scratch, just fit them and be done with it. Too cheap to muck around with. :thumbsup:
For anyone reading this in 2020 (as opposed to 2018), I’ve had ZERO further issues with noise from the toe-links.
Use the RERS seals.
 

BLUE DEVIL

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Do you have a part number or a link to the boot?
 

Burkey

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BLUE DEVIL

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Thanks guys!

Has anyone ever come up with info. On the red bushing pictured above?
 

roger1981

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Thanks guys!

Has anyone ever come up with info. On the red bushing pictured above?
sure looks like pieces of bmr's rear cradle poly bushing kit for 15-21 mustang
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