Project Cobra

Thought it was about time I introduced our project car to this forum , there is a full thread on it here http://mustangforum.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8534&hilit=project+cobra but maybe you don't all frequent both forums

I shant repeat everything here but this car is pretty well equipped for an EcoBoost and is still growing , acting as a great showcase for the parts we can offer you guys and the workshop services we can offer as well

Aside from the software (where we are working well ) with a decent US supplier we have built the car from the ground up ourselves and thus far are very pleased with the result

As we stand today she is running just about 410hp and we are working rigorously to take her to the next level , we have recently installed bigger fuel injectors and are working hard to the perfect the mapping for that setup before moving forward , we have some camshafts ready to drop in but dependent on what the next set of data logs tell us as well as dyno runs its likely we will have to make the steps to upgrade the fuel system further , ideally with a bigger capacity fuel pump for the direct injection system

Our figures are very interesting and call into question many of the claims from our US counterparts , especially if they are supposed to be running on everyday 'pump' fuel. Of course what they may determine as pump fuel and our pump fuel may be very different as they have access to E30 and E85 much more freely , this may be where the numbers are coming from

Our brief spec thus far is as follows (I may have forgotten a few things):

Anderson Composites AR style front lip spoiler
Anderson Composites AR style side skirts
Anderson Composites AR style rear diffuser
Anderson Composites ST style bootlid
Anderson Composites Heat Extractor style bonnet
Anderson Composites Engine Cover
Anderson Composites Radiator Cover
Anderson Composites Rear Seat Delete
GT350R steering wheel
GT350R red start button
Alcantara with red stitching console cover
Alcantara with red stitching gear lever gaiter
Alcantara with red stitching handbrake gaiter
LED Interior bulb kit
EFR Big turbo kit
Full Race Intercooler & Hard pipe kit
Full Race 3" CAIK
DW 1700cc injectors
Denso Spark Plugs
Turbosmart Actuator
Mishimoto alloy radiator
Mishimoto Catch Can kit
Mishimoto header tank
Mishimoto (JWR modified) Oil cooler kit
Mishimoto Coolant hoses
MIshimoto CAT back exhaust system
JWR front pipe
DEI CryO2 kit
MMR Design 11" & 10" staggered wheel set
Yokmohoma Tyres
Eibach Anti roll bar kit front and rear
Ford Performance damper kit
Eibach spring kit
Ford Performance GT350R front strut brace
SuperSnake stripe kit
Shelby 'Cobra' wing decals
LED DRLs (JWR modified) to work with switch back LEDs in indicators
LED Switchback Indicators
LED sidelights
LED side markers
Headlight bulb upgrade
Fog lamp bulb upgrade

Due to be installed shortly:
Headlight DRL kit
EPM Tail light sequencer
Upgrade camshaft set
Upgrade DI Fuel pump
Revised software





Any questions , let me know

Cheers

Jason

Hey Jason,

Good to see this thread made it over here. Have you heard about the reasonikg behind the mysterious ecoboom happening? Adam thinks hes sussed it. Juat obviousky dont want to hear you guys push the engine over that 425bhp thresh hold and run a ticking time bomb and end up with a rod through the block. Ill whatsapp you it and hopefully when engine gutting begins, you can fix it and not have to qorry about going boom...

Cant wait ti see the car. You bringing her to ford fest or nemesis' 10th birthday? (Or the smuk meet in tammworth next month?)

thats the front splitter I was considering but now i've seen it I don't like it so will go with the andersons normal pp replica one and an apr splitter I think.

do like the side skirts but can you give us a picture from the rear too so I can see the rear valance

What a Beast!
Love the hood, love the splitter
Nice, nice car.

Manders Mustang said:

Hey Jason,

Good to see this thread made it over here. Have you heard about the reasonikg behind the mysterious ecoboom happening? Adam thinks hes sussed it. Juat obviousky dont want to hear you guys push the engine over that 425bhp thresh hold and run a ticking time bomb and end up with a rod through the block. Ill whatsapp you it and hopefully when engine gutting begins, you can fix it and not have to qorry about going boom...

Cant wait ti see the car. You bringing her to ford fest or nemesis' 10th birthday? (Or the smuk meet in tammworth next month?)

Click to expand...

please do send me over any info you know of , always good to pre empt problems , prevention being better than the cure and all that

we don't plan to go much more than where we are without forging the engine in any case , but funny how the limit is gradually coming down into the lower 400s when the US boys were claiming 450-475 with these turbo kits easily , yet over here that translation does not work and never would

we have nearly got the map right for the current setup so will see what the mapper thinks of the logs and then decide if we can go more or if extra fuel is needed , if the fuel pump is required we may just do the forging of the engine at the same time and make it the winter project

cheers

Jason

JWR said:

please do send me over any info you know of , always good to pre empt problems , prevention being better than the cure and all that

we don't plan to go much more than where we are without forging the engine in any case , but funny how the limit is gradually coming down into the lower 400s when the US boys were claiming 450-475 with these turbo kits easily , yet over here that translation does not work and never would

we have nearly got the map right for the current setup so will see what the mapper thinks of the logs and then decide if we can go more or if extra fuel is needed , if the fuel pump is required we may just do the forging of the engine at the same time and make it the winter project

cheers

Jason

Click to expand...

Just hunting for it !

yeah it's easily pushable into the remits of 425-450 wheels, however at that point you start getting too close for comfort and all the pressure in the engine doesn't help (It'll explain when you see what the issue is,coming in hot, keep it secret squirrel, or credit Tune+ for finding it!)

hinch said:

thats the front splitter I was considering but now i've seen it I don't like it so will go with the andersons normal pp replica one and an apr splitter I think.

do like the side skirts but can you give us a picture from the rear too so I can see the rear valance

Click to expand...

not everyones cup of tea , pretty aggressive that front lip !

AC do a version that is very similar to the OEM in design but a little more aggressive , that's pretty popular as its not OE but not OTT either !

heres an eye level pic of the dual exit rear diffuser , they also offer a quad exit version and GT350 style too!



cheers

Jason

[MENTION=22085]JWR[/MENTION] with you on whatsapp

Surely if the issue with the block is the rods trying to escape, would not just fitting forged rods be the cure?

Not the biggest or most expensive of jobs, so surely its just best to play it safe and fit forged rods if your plans are 400+.

I suspect the issue comes from the torque the 2.3l creates, its a big torque motor for a small capacity engine, which will always end up bending stuff.

Have any tuners tried the approach of tuning for horsepower ONLY and actually reducing the torque levels as a test?

When I had the EVO, if you had the SST (auto) transmission the maximum safe torque was 360lb/ft before you risk killing the box. As such tuners would dial the HP up to around 500 area on stock block, but keep the torque limited to 360lb/ft to protect the box and it worked.

Of course on the 2.3l the weakness is the engine/rods, but maybe a similar solution could work?

By the way completely guessing, I know nothing about the 2.3l really apart from it having to few cylinders and seemingly randomly just going pop when it feels like it.

for clarity our power figures are only at the crank currently , so not too silly on the numbers albeit that 100hp more than standard

engine feels good and runs very well currently , but we are moving towards the point where the engine will need to be removed for strengthening

we certainly wont push too far and if we were able to squeeze a few more horses before engine out its likely we will do the rods , pistons , fuel pump and any other sensible internal mods at the same time

cheers

Jason

[MENTION=13598]Gibbo205[/MENTION] Close, but, no, because the engine has a lot of cheap weak parts in, there's rubbish rods, pistons, valves etc, you fix one bit and push then you hit the limit for another, easier to pull the block and build it all at once but yes, in theory you could do one at a time, but that becomes stupidly expensive. Most Turbo's on the car will reach over the peak of the entire engine components easily with a good tune, I know a VS2+ will peak around 550 wheels, where most the blocks are choking at the 425-475 range. Other turbos will peak 600-900 quite easily, but, obviously you need all the supporting factors before this.

the potential cause of the 'ecoboom' is partly caused by the torque and engine pressure from the turbo forcing sh1t in. Which can cause said part to fail, stuff to go in that shouldn't, and hey presto, boom.

Only happens with Cylinder 3, because of the timing, where said parts are in the engine, the routing of certain things etc. (I'm really trying not to say 'what' the issue is, due to dealers on the forums etc, adam's not released it publically yet, just on a private group he manages for the EB engines (Not just Mustangs))

Issue with the EBM is you really have to dial Torque up with the BHP, as they run hand in hand, as most the power is from dialling up the turbo etc. So really, no escaping peak torque or boost etc.

I know some build guys run peak 31psi, I peak about 24.5 on my tune, and I think when I swap tunes that'll go down, but some other bits will pick up time for the turbo to kick in, reduction in spool, duration it kicks for, powerband yada yada yada yada.

Other option is to run meth to cool the engine a bit, but really, it'll bring the power up too much and cause a boom too, Meth's really our only option with our fuel, most US guys are on that good stuff (E85/E30) and making stupid power with insane timing that petrol pump fuel could only dream of.

you can use the meth kit as a safety factor only , if you fit it as a standalone kit and don't have the tune modified to take advantage of the cooler temps and higher octane it will not have huge effects on the performance

not exactly the same but EcoBoost nonetheless we have a WMI kit on our demo Fiesta , that car is currently running 285hp at the crank and when we turn the WMI on the change is minimal if any in terms of power but we know the car is running safer as inlet temps drop due to the injection of the WMI

on that car we have a multi stage boost controller so can run safely on stage 1 and 2 but when we push stage 3 boost for max power we turn the WNI on at the same time for the protection

cheers

Jason

[MENTION=22085]JWR[/MENTION] sorry I meant you can get the power if tuned for it, same with most things if I'm saying power, I mean it's tuned into it. Without tune it's negligible what gains (power) it gives.

But yeah, as you say - safety factor without a tune !

Then its a shame Ford cheaped out on so many internal parts, in short then just build the engine to take the power or go home. It is why the EVO's were great cars, the little 2.0l twist and pist units could handle huge power on stock internals and forging them they could kick out well over 1000HP, not very drive able as a daily but the moment you go huge turbo on a small capacity engine, lag is inevitable and the bigger the turbine, the worse it is. Why most EVO guys pushed the stock turbo to around 420HP, or fitted the uprated one that was good for 500HP to keep lag to a minimum, engine internals were only an issue 600 up if memory serves me right, proper tough blocks, might of being cast iron too, which helps a lot particular on bottom end, but man it was years ago and I don't remember yesterday that well.

For me if the EB was the only engine in the Mustang, then all this hassle would be worth it, but alas it is not, there is a V8 option that is a pretty solid motor, only needs OPG to be good for 800HP crank long term, can push more if your a gambling person. As such if I was going to throw thousands at forging an EB engine, it seems pointless, just get the Mustang with the right engine.

Of course the Focus RS boys don't have that option, but they also do get better internal components and heads in the RS compared to Mustang.

@Gibbo205 Yet RS boys have the exact same issues due to the same cheaped out parts, RS boys have had a hell of a lot of ecobooms in the UK... Mustangs - 0.
I do agree, if building the block it'd be cheaper to just buy the V8, however saying that, I've just ran the maths, it's actually not, to get the same power from differing engines.

We're talking numbers so on current prices:
EB - 33645
V8 - 38095
(difference of £4450 for the engine)

OPG + FPG on a v8
Say £1000 just for the sake of argument
Whipple:
Say £9000 for the sake of argument (Inc installing etc taking Gt101's prices)

That's an 800 bhp V8 for:
48k. (WITH NO OTHER MODS)

Vs

Ecoboost built motor ($6000 usd, say $7000 total to ship - £5453 in price. 24% tax duty etc, is 6741 total)
6741+2500 for Turbo (ish) then £600 for Intercooler, £280 for tune+ tune.

That's EB:
+10121
Total of £43766

so you could pay:
£43766
or
£48k

£4300 to play with on the EB gives you enough room (easily) to do the intake and other bits, yet, same power and a shedload more torques .

Points to note, on the V8 I've ignored the cost for a tune, and taken whipples stock one. I've also taken GT101's price for installing and guesstimated the OPG/FPG. I've added the WGA upgrade in the turbo price, and ignored intake (about an extra £350, downpipe (£500-1k), and exhaust (£1k) from the EBM, but also for fairness discounted the Exhaust (c£1k), Headers(C2.5-3k with install) etc from the V8 numbers)

Good ol' man maths :lol: