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phunk

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I know the tuning side. They all directly effect the other. Ask your tuner his thoughts.
They effect one another but in compartmentalized ways. They have to be looked at as individual systems just as much as a whole.

I dont need my tuners thoughts, he only needs to worry about my tuning. The only piece of information I need from him is where he wants the base pressure set and if he wants a dynamic or static differential (1:1). I will make sure the fuel system provides the pressure curve he is expecting and he can just worry about tuning.
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mustang_guy

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Your fuel pump runs on the ragged edge at idle without a BAP. Pump on = ragged edge. Your fuel pump runs at one speed: everything its got. There is no throttle for it... voltage is the best you can do for that. If fuel pressure at the pump isnt dropping, than you are doing as good as you will do with any pump configuration.

A BAP isnt bad at all, especially when they are configured to only increase voltage under high load. I expect fuel pump lifespan to be effected almost negligibly under this condition.
Im aware of how BAPS work. Not everyone that runs BAPS isn't just tooting around town and playing with it sometimes. A lot of them are racing their car A LOT, myself included. I beat my street cars like they owe me money. Using a bap at much higher voltage, say 17-20v shortens its life by quite a bit. Especially if your car is using at that voltage very often, like a person racing their car A LOT. Using it at 14-15 is a nice difference. 17-20v is pushing it to the edge. Not sure how you think more voltage then designed for doesn't shorten life. That's just sophistry. Its a risk. You like the BAP. Good, people that have tons in a build don't cheap out and use BAPS. If they are, they are being foolish. Ive built multiple 900-1300whp cars I sure wouldn't risk 30-60g builds on a 300 dollar item. You sure are defending the BAP like its a personal attack against you as a person. Where I frequent, none of them would cheap out on a BAP. If you wanted to cheap out that's cool. Don't defend it like its a good idea though. I believe that's the argument at hand.
 

Reds197

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You are already taking his advice when you set the fuel pressure. LOL

(13:1 a/f at redline).
 

phunk

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Im aware of how BAPS work. Not everyone that runs baps isn't just tooting around town. A lot of them are racing their car A LOT. Myself included. Using a bap at much higher voltage, say 17-20v shortens its life by quite a bit. Especially if your car is using at that voltage very often, like a person racing their car A LOT. Using it at 14-15 is a nice difference. 17-20v is pushing it to the edge. Not sure how you think more voltage then designed for doesn't shorten life. That's just sophistry. Its a risk. You like the BAP. Good, people that have tons in a build don't cheap out and use BAPS. If they are, they are being foolish. Ive built multiple 900-1300whp cars I sure wouldn't risk 30-60g builds on a 300 dollar item. You sure are defending the BAP like its a personal attack against you as a person. Where I frequent, none of them would cheap out on a BAP. If you wanted to cheap out that's cool. Don't defend it like its a good idea though. I believe that's the argument at hand.
Yes the more voltage the shorter the lifespan. Common sense really.

My original point was that both systems share their risk. A twin pump is NOT without risk.

As for defending a BAP... its just using my brain is all. For you see my full time job is designing and building fuel injection systems. Hundreds a year in fact. Currently, my CNC in the shop is cutting a batch of 50 twin fuel pump module hats for one of my personally designed twin pumps... I walk out there every 5 min from my desk to swap the parts.

I know more than anyone here is going to teach me about fuel systems... no way to say that without sounding cocky and thats fine.

But a BAP has its place, and a twin pump is not a magic solution.

The real shit will be out next year... the brushless singles with speed controllers. That will make the BAP and the multipump guys both the suckas LOL
 

phunk

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You are already taking his advice when you set the fuel pressure. LOL

(13:1 a/f at redline).
You are clearly lacking an understanding here.

The tuner must know the fuel pressure because pressure differential effects flow through the injectors. If the pressure he tunes for and the pressure the rails operate at are different, it will add complexity to the tuning as he will not be seeing the results he seeks and expects.

It has nothing to do with advice, it has to do with coordinating what is expected with what it truly is.
 

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Reds197

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His experience will say what to set fuel pressure at. Advice in my opinion.
 

phunk

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His experience will say what to set fuel pressure at. Advice in my opinion.
If the fuel pressure is lower than he built the tune around, the car will run lean. If the fuel pressure higher than he built the tune around, the car will run rich.

Its not advice, its coordinating. Leave this to the professionals.
 

mustang_guy

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Yes the more voltage the shorter the lifespan. Common sense really.

My original point was that both systems share their risk. A twin pump is NOT without risk.

As for defending a BAP... its just using my brain is all. For you see my full time job is designing and building fuel injection systems. Hundreds a year in fact. Currently, my CNC in the shop is cutting a batch of 50 twin fuel pump module hats for one of my personally designed twin pumps... I walk out there every 5 min from my desk to swap the parts.

I know more than anyone here is going to teach me about fuel systems... no way to say that without sounding cocky and thats fine.

But a BAP has its place, and a twin pump is not a magic solution.

The real shit will be out next year... the brushless singles with speed controllers. That will make the BAP and the multipump guys both the suckas LOL
Modding any car is a risk. Some mods add to that percentage of risk. I try to keep my percentage down, personally. I prefer return fuel systems. They are a superior choice for a good reason. I personally have no issues with BAPS at modest voltage increases overstock. Especially for someone that isn't beating on the car every time its out. That's a pretty sweet job. You don't sound cocky, if I added tone to text that wasn't there, possibly. Sometimes there is no way to inform someone without saying it. People often confuse that as cocky. Looking forward to the new pumps. :thumbsup:
 

phunk

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Looking forward to the new pumps. :thumbsup:
I wont be making any for the Mustang, at least its not in the plans. I have a Fore twin pump going in my car. But if I am really happy with the plumbing system I build I might offer it up through a vendor on here. I just finished drawing up this regulator mount bracket that puts the reg on the back of the Whipple, I am going to laser cut it this week. I am running a 1/2" stainless hardpipe (-8an) and using the stock 3/8 feed pipe for the return. I will post up my fuel system build in a week or two and if people dig it I might make the parts available for people to use as a bolt-in kit.
 

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mustang_guy

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I wont be making any for the Mustang, at least its not in the plans. I have a Fore twin pump going in my car. But if I am really happy with the plumbing system I build I might offer it up through a vendor on here. I just finished drawing up this regulator mount bracket that puts the reg on the back of the Whipple, I am going to laser cut it this week. I am running a 1/2" stainless hardpipe (-8an) and using the stock 3/8 feed pipe for the return. I will post up my fuel system build in a week or two and if people dig it I might make the parts available for people to use as a bolt-in kit.
ill try to keep an eye out for the build. Hope it works out as well as you expect.
 
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Kryckter

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Does anyone have any pics of the completed fore return system on their car? Where are you mounting the regulator?

Any tips to the install?
 

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heres a vid, shows some of the underhood

[ame]
 

mustang_guy

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Hey terry, does The "Beefcake Special" Vortech Supercharger Kit 1200HP Complete fully optioned out and with the stg2 e85 kit come with a Fore fuel kit or is it someone elses?
 
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Kryckter

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heres a vid, shows some of the underhood
Couple more questions I will ask here instead of a PM in hopes it will help someone in the future ;)

On the 15, can you install the fore triple pump module into the gas tank from the backseat without lowering the tank?

Are you running the lines alongside the factory lines and coming up through the driver wheelwell likes previous years?

Sorry for the questions ahead of time, just trying to plan out my install :cheers:
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