Meth Injected and Whipple Charged

Looks awesome! Cool to see someone else running methanol.

I have a Procharger but just purchased an Alky Control meth system, cant wait to get it in. Personally I am using it mostly for cooling and knock suppression. But also going to tune a couple more degrees of timing with it.

Also I remember seeing a video on Youtube I believe of some before/after comparisons of meth on a coyote. If I remember correctly the meth with NO tune changes made +40whp, and with a tune set up for it it was even more. I want to say +60-80whp.

Bartly said:

Yeah 91 sure isn't cutting it for me for sure. So now the million dollar question... we spoke before about the amount of KR you had seen, I can't recall if it was in the 2-3 range, wondering if you ever saw 4? You said above your KR was gonzo, I'm just trying to gauge what adding the meth/water system would do for someone like me who's is seeing 6 KR. I know it's hard to predict, just wanting to be hopeful it will get me closer to zero, heck maybe even some negative KR at WOT. Hopefully not just wishful thinking on my part. Also wondering what size tank you ordered and if you have already been thinking of a bigger tank? Sounds like to tank that comes with the kit is good for at least a full tank of gas, so probably would be better to be in the habit of topping it off at every fill up, not sure which would be better, a tank that you get in the habit of ripping off at every fill up or one that you check at every 3-4 fill ups. Anyway, thanks again for all the sharing of info. Seems like nobody on the planet want to talk about + KR values, I appreciate your sharing.

Also, from what I am reading I am leaning towards the direction of just letting my existing tune adapt to the meth/water injection and not change the tune to optimize for it. That whole safety thing in case the water/meth stops flowing my engine will just run like it has been on this tune. Only side effect I see from reading is it might run a little on the rich side?

Click to expand...

Wow! if your seeing +6 knock that's not good at all and I would pulley it back even if you run the meth. The way I use meth is to allow me to run a little more boost but not more than my knock logic can safely remove at its max if the meth fails to spray. So for me with 13 psi 3.5" whipple pulley and 93 octane fuel my knock will be hitting close to +4, but the whipple knock logic can pull or add 4 degrees, so it's still able to control the knock if meth fails to spray for some reason.

So with this method I use you would need to find out how much timing your calibration is setup to pull if it sees +6 knock and it can only pull 4 than you have 2 over and uncontrolled. Is this is the case you should pulley down until your knock threshold is not more than your knock logic max spark control. This way when you run meth and your enjoying positive knock free pulls, if your meth fails to spray your not over your max knock control.

As far as the tank, I use a 1.5 gal TRUNK setup from AIS and with a single 9gph or 625ml/mn nozzle I may run all summer without filling my meth tanks again. Depends on how often your in boost and all, but it lasts a long time.

jcart953 said:

This guy picked up some gains with a meth kit. Here's a read for you:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...-a-blown-and-meth-injected-coyote-powerplant/

Click to expand...

This is a great article on meth on an S550 calibration without changes in it for meth. It's very interesting that like me in this article his A/F didn't change even with meth injection. This tells me the fuel trims are able to compensate fast enough with meth to control and keep the A/F in check and at its target.

Roh92cp said:

This isn't a great article on meth on an S550 calibration without changes in it for meth. It's very interesting that like me in this article his A/F didn't change even with meth injection. This tells me the fuel trims are able to compensate fast enough with meth to control and keep the A/F in check and at its target.

Click to expand...

I'm curious where you put your nozzle, any pictures?

mustang1 said:

Procharger advertises 91 octane. Are you sure the KR numbers are correct? Does CHT / IAT2 make any difference ?

Click to expand...

Well, not sure how to tell if the KR is correct or not. The calibration that came with the Procharger kit was measuring +4 KR and I was told that is what the Procharger tune is set to allow as max. Since then I've had a dyno tune tune done and if I recall that's when it was changed to not limit the KR at 4 and that's when I began seeing values as high as +6. I asked the dyno tuner to look into the KNock values and he gave me a final tune with the sensors turned off so the read zero all the time. That's when I contacted Rob Shoemaker and had another tune written to turn the knock sensors back on. And am now seeing similar values. Most of the time it's in the 3-5 range. This is all on WOT pulls. When I ad something like Torco to the tank the values go to negative and I don't see any + KR. Can only assume sensors are working correctly.

Roh92cp said:

Wow! if your seeing +6 knock that's not good at all and I would pulley it back even if you run the meth. The way I use meth is to allow me to run a little more boost but not more than my knock logic can safely remove at its max if the meth fails to spray. So for me with 13 psi 3.5" whipple pulley and 93 octane fuel my knock will be hitting close to +4, but the whipple knock logic can pull or add 4 degrees, so it's still able to control the knock if meth fails to spray for some reason.

So with this method I use you would need to find out how much timing your calibration is setup to pull if it sees +6 knock and it can only pull 4 than you have 2 over and uncontrolled. Is this is the case you should pulley down until your knock threshold is not more than your knock logic max spark control. This way when you run meth and your enjoying positive knock free pulls, if your meth fails to spray your not over your max knock control.

As far as the tank, I use a 1.5 gal TRUNK setup from AIS and with a single 9gph or 625ml/mn nozzle I may run all summer without filling my meth tanks again. Depends on how often your in boost and all, but it lasts a long time.

Click to expand...

Thanks again for the info. When I start a WOT pull, timing gets pulled down to 15 at the end of a run when it's seeing KR in the +5-6 range. I dont know if the calibration is pulling the entire amount that the KR is being measured at. I've talked to some other guys around here who have been boosted and they say the gas here is shit for sure, but I've been thinking it's the same gas as Northern California, so would guess CA guys would see the same thing, I'm at 4500 ft elevation, so my situation should be better as the air density is lower so less boost? I'm only at 8.75 psi boost and was told the max pulley up is one size (to a 4.88" pulley from my existing 4.75). Procharger suggested puting one of those off-road dust filter bags over my filter as it constructs air flow, which should lower my boost, just haven't gotten there yet. thanks again.

esacteksab said:

I'm curious where you put your nozzle, any pictures?

Click to expand...

I'm injecting on the intake elbow before the throttle body.

Roh92cp said:

I'm injecting on the intake elbow before the throttle body.

Click to expand...

After the MAF?

esacteksab said:

After the MAF?

Click to expand...

Correct

Roh92cp said:

Correct

Click to expand...

Where in Maine are you from? I have a vacation home on Eagle Lake

Bartly said:

Well, not sure how to tell if the KR is correct or not. The calibration that came with the Procharger kit was measuring +4 KR and I was told that is what the Procharger tune is set to allow as max. Since then I've had a dyno tune ...

Click to expand...

when you WOT and record KR, what are the temps? IAT1, IAT2 and CHT ?

Earlj said:

Where in Maine are you from? I have a vacation home on Eagle Lake

Click to expand...

Holy shit! Your last name must be Pelletier:doh: I work in Fort Kent at the Border, you got to look me up when you come up.

Roh92cp said:

Holy shit! Your last name must be Pelletier:doh: I work in Fort Kent at the Border, you got to look me up when you come up.

Click to expand...

I will be heading up next month, i will pm you when. I have a house near Birchaven campground.

Roh92cp said:

This isn't a great article on meth on an S550 calibration without changes in it for meth. It's very interesting that like me in this article his A/F didn't change even with meth injection. This tells me the fuel trims are able to compensate fast enough with meth to control and keep the A/F in check and at its target.

Click to expand...

Just to bump this up....this is actually a BAD thing...

Meth burns a LOT richer stoich than gasoline, close to 8:1. Therefore, when you let the PCM adjust trims back to a gasoline target stoich, you are running leaner than you need to and leaner than where you would make peak power.

Personally, though I haven't done it or seen it done, I would setup the tune to be a flex fuel tune so that when it sees the fuel trims jump 10-15% at WOT, it assumes there is a higher ethanol content and starts to adjust the target stoich.

I ran a very heavy shot of meth in my prior whipple setup (non coyote), and made peak power on a gasoline AFR gauge around 10.3:1 AFR.

In this case he's not using the meth as a fuel supplement. It's strictly being used for evaporative cooling, more like a intercooler supplement. He sent me the first 10 or so logs he's made with the kit while we dial in the ramp rate of the meth. His logs show .73-.72 lambda, that's anywhere from 10.5-10.7 AFR. It's not running lean at all. And where he was showing +3 degrees of knock before the meth setup on 91oct, he's now seeing -3 to -4. That's a big jump in timing, at least 60hp worth I'd say.

mustang1 said:

when you WOT and record KR, what are the temps? IAT1, IAT2 and CHT ?

Click to expand...

The most recent logs from this summer. For some reason I don't find IAT1 and IAT2 on the available PIDs, but do see IAT on the logs as being around 86 at the beginning of a run and 91 at the end. Cylinder temps around 200-212 (maybe 220 if I'm on it over and over) depending on how hard I'm driving it. I do have some logs with the IAT around 60-70 with similar knock. The Procharger intercooler is pretty good at doing it's job.