Hub Centric Rings

Scurd Racing · Nov 22, 2017

Ok guys,

This is a huge debate as some guys say they never run them and some say its essential. lol. but I have a scary experience with them before and I have not used them for awhile. But I just wanna hear you guys out. I got Vorsteiner wheels on and they are 70.6 center bore. Our mustang hub bore is 70.3 if I'm not wrong.

The last time I have hub centric rings installed, they are the plastic one and after I installed them that day, I went for a short canyon run. What happen was the plastic melted and expanded, pushing my wheels out and when I reach the top of the canton, 4 lug nuts were loose, when I said loose, like I can use my fingers to take them out. I could have died that day if one of the wheels came out, sending me down the canyon. I brought tools that day luckily, and jack the care up and tighten them.

But as I drive, I saw the wheels wobbling. I limp slowly down the canyon and when I reach the bottom, I removed all wheels and remove the rings which are melted and expanded by then. The wobble is gone and my wheels are tight.

Now, I'm wondering if I should get the aluminium one and install them for my upcoming HPDE event at buttonwillow. The car runs fine without it. Just want to get some opinion from you guys.

Grafanton · Nov 22, 2017

I was putting on my winter wheels and tires over the weekend and noticed my hub rings were missing.
I poked around the internet on this very subject just the other day. From my reading, the hub spacers have nothing to do with holding on the wheel and tire centered, they are there to ease the installation of the wheel and tire. If you use proper installation technique, there should be no issues with running without hub spacers. My understanding is that proper installation is to tighten the lugs with the wheel off the ground.
Just what I read.

GT_Dave · Nov 22, 2017

Scurd Racing said:
Ok guys,

This is a huge debate as some guys say they never run them and some say its essential. lol. but I have a scary experience with them before and I have not used them for awhile. But I just wanna hear you guys out. I got Vorsteiner wheels on and they are 70.6 center bore. Our mustang hub bore is 70.3 if I'm not wrong.

The last time I have hub centric rings installed, they are the plastic one and after I installed them that day, I went for a short canyon run. What happen was the plastic melted and expanded, pushing my wheels out and when I reach the top of the canton, 4 lug nuts were loose, when I said loose, like I can use my fingers to take them out. I could have died that day if one of the wheels came out, sending me down the canyon. I brought tools that day luckily, and jack the care up and tighten them.

But as I drive, I saw the wheels wobbling. I limp slowly down the canyon and when I reach the bottom, I removed all wheels and remove the rings which are melted and expanded by then. The wobble is gone and my wheels are tight.

Now, I'm wondering if I should get the aluminium one and install them for my upcoming HPDE event at buttonwillow. The car runs fine without it. Just want to get some opinion from you guys.

The plastic rings had nothing to do with your wheels coming loose. If properly torqued, that cannot happen.
I agree with the statement above, if installed properly, rings are not necessary to keep the wheels centered.

Scurd Racing · Nov 22, 2017

GT_Dave said:
The plastic rings had nothing to do with your wheels coming loose. If properly torqued, that cannot happen.
I agree with the statement above, if installed properly, rings are not necessary to keep the wheels centered.

From my reading, it was this same as you guys. However that happened to me once and the plastic ring did really expanded and cause my wheels to be loose. The wheels sit fully flush to the hub surface after I remove them so they ARE the culprit for that. Now I always torque my lug nuts one by one and make sure all is installed properly.

Norm Peterson · Nov 22, 2017

I really doubt that the plastic expanded and caused either the lug nuts to loosen or the studs to stretch.

More likely they weren't fit up flush when you torqued the lug nuts down the first time, and squished enough for some lug nuts to loosen.

Proper installation of wheels means careful installation.

Norm

BlkGT3 · Nov 22, 2017

One important thing to remember when you install new wheels. You need to retorque them several times as they will loosen up while driving as they wear in.

Peter

Scurd Racing · Nov 23, 2017

Norm Peterson said:
I really doubt that the plastic expanded and caused either the lug nuts to loosen or the studs to stretch.

More likely they weren't fit up flush when you torqued the lug nuts down the first time, and squished enough for some lug nuts to loosen.

Proper installation of wheels means careful installation.

Norm

It actually did expand from the california heat or maybe my aggressive driving through the canyons. It was a freebie that came and it might be a really bad one. Who knows, After removing them and inspecting. They were indeed expanded.

Competition Orange · Nov 23, 2017

You're missing the point...

It's almost hard to believe that you think they managed to back off properly torqued lug nuts.

DickR · Nov 23, 2017

What torque did you use (150 lb-ft is correct) and do the wheels have a recess to clear the tinnerman nuts (remove the tinnerman nuts if needed)? Both are common causes of loose wheels. Another common cause is not letting the cones on the lug nuts center the wheel by tightening them in steps using a star pattern while taking enough time to make sure the wheel is pulled against the mounting surface properly before applying final torque.

The wheel would already have to be loose for melting plastic to flow between the wheel and mounting surface.

Scurd Racing · Nov 23, 2017

DickR said:
What torque did you use (150 lb-ft is correct) and do the wheels have a recess to clear the tinnerman nuts (remove the tinnerman nuts if needed)? Both are common causes of loose wheels. Another common cause is not letting the cones on the lug nuts center the wheel by tightening them in steps using a star pattern while taking enough time to make sure the wheel is pulled against the mounting surface properly before applying final torque.

The wheel would already have to be loose for melting plastic to flow between the wheel and mounting surface.

I guess that might be what happened. Because when inspecting the plastic ring, it for flatten and expanded to the sides. But where it cannot expand, it expanded outwards.

Scurd Racing · Nov 23, 2017

Competition Orange said:
You're missing the point...

It's almost hard to believe that you think they managed to back off properly torqued lug nuts.

Believe me, I find it harder to believe lol.

NightmareMoon · Nov 23, 2017

Just make sure the wheel is properly seated before you begin final torque in a star pattern.

If you torque all 5 and go back and check the torque on #1 and its looser than it should be, then you didn't get the wheel seated correctly or something is pinched in there.

It's a good idea to recheck torque after driving a bit just to be sure, but in my experience, that's usually only necessary if you did final torque immediately after lowering the car back onto it's tires. When you drop a car from a jack or lift, the way the suspension moves it stretches the suspension against the tires, pulling the bottom of the tires in toward the center of the car and pushing the top of the wheels outward. If you just roll the car a few feet with partially torqued lug nuts (80% of final torque) before applying final torque, that lets the suspension and tires normalize and then you can go for final torque that's very likely to stay that way.

sigintel · Nov 26, 2017

Real danger here

This could have ended poorly.
Thanks for posting up for others.

It sounds like incorrect hub rings were provided. Can you post some pictures?
Can you send them to me? Can cover shipping.
Rings were too big and interfered with the wheel seating on the hub. You basically sandwiched plastic between the hub and wheel. It got hot and the forces crushed the soft plastic and allowed you to drive with the wheel loose on the hub. This causes substantial strain hardening and cyclic damage to studs. The thread root concentrates strain and can initiate a crack that grows with cyclic hammering due to a loose wheel shifting every rotation.

Studs should be replaced on any hub that had a loose wheel while driving.
Had this happened at an hpde event....
If your instructor became aware, you would likely be required to have studs replaced on any hub with a loose wheel before being cleared by tech inspection to be allowed on track.
You used every last bit of the safety margin built into the studs and wheel hub interface by Ford. (Thank you Ford engineers!)

Scurd Racing · Nov 27, 2017

sigintel said:
This could have ended poorly.
Thanks for posting up for others.

It sounds like incorrect hub rings were provided. Can you post some pictures?
Can you send them to me? Can cover shipping.
Rings were too big and interfered with the wheel seating on the hub. You basically sandwiched plastic between the hub and wheel. It got hot and the forces crushed the soft plastic and allowed you to drive with the wheel loose on the hub. This causes substantial strain hardening and cyclic damage to studs. The thread root concentrates strain and can initiate a crack that grows with cyclic hammering due to a loose wheel shifting every rotation.

Studs should be replaced on any hub that had a loose wheel while driving.
Had this happened at an hpde event....
If your instructor became aware, you would likely be required to have studs replaced on any hub with a loose wheel before being cleared by tech inspection to be allowed on track.
You used every last bit of the safety margin built into the studs and wheel hub interface by Ford. (Thank you Ford engineers!)

Thankyou for sharing. First ever proper explanation. The rings are definitely the cause of the whole incident. Here are the photos:

Norm Peterson · Nov 27, 2017

Only seeing little squares with the white "X".

Very much interested in what happened, since I've had one plastic centering ring distort in such a manner that once removed could not be re-used because the wheel could not be made to go fully flush again.

Norm

Hub Centric Rings

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GT_Dave

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BlkGT3

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DickR

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NightmareMoon

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sigintel

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