2018 Mustang Fleet Brochure

Bullitt · May 4, 2017

1320' said:
So you have a choice:

A more powerful drivetrain and performance suspension in a sports coupe...

or!..

A sub-compact tinker toy with a 8" touch screen.

Your choice.

Or a more powerful drivetrain and performance suspension in a sports coupe with a 7 inch touchscreen and Chevy badge...

c-rizzle · May 4, 2017

ApollosWar89 said:
At this price point. A larger screen is a standard product. A mid-range Honda civic sedan has better tech than the base model mustang and those run over 10k cheaper.

Not a good comparison. A Mustang GT engine ($7k) and powertrain ($4k) costs more than those Civics you're comparing them too. So Ford skimps on the interior/options, b/c they have so much money in the engine, suspension, powertrain, etc.. Then they can also make more profit on those extra big screen, nav, stereo, options.

1320' said:
So you have a choice:

A more powerful drivetrain and performance suspension in a sports coupe...

or!..

A sub-compact tinker toy with a 8" touch screen.

Your choice.

Exactly.

Storm · May 4, 2017

I'm picturing Midnight Blue to be a mix of blue and black, but that may not be the case seeing that the current red interior has all-red seats. Here's something similar on a BMW Z4 I found online:

PatrickGT · May 4, 2017

ApollosWar89 said:
At this price point. A larger screen is a standard product. A mid-range Honda civic sedan has better tech than the base model mustang and those run over 10k cheaper.

Where do you people come up with these thoughts?!

The Civic is also a FWD mostly-CVT equipped 4cylinder commuter car.

The Mustang is a RWD performance oriented vehicle.

Now, wouldn't you expect to see some differences? I'm sure if Ford gave us a FWD 4cyl Mustang they would be fine with throwing a touchscreen in to distract us from the disgrace they brought upon the product line... I mean really?

PatrickGT · May 4, 2017

Storm said:
I'm picturing Midnight Blue to be a mix of blue and black, but that may not be the case seeing that the current red interior has all-red seats. Here's something similar on a BMW Z4 I found online:

Prob something more like this since that Z4 interior is uglyAF:

GS-F:

That's midnight blue

Or even something like the old-school Japanese blue interiors like this Suzuka S2K:

Which is only 50% as terrible in person, and that is still too much lol

Bullitt · May 4, 2017

All you guys are missing the point. The Civic and Spark references were to show how even the cheapest of cars come standard with this stuff. The problem is the Challenger and Camaro both come standard with larger touchscreens. So no, there is no sacrifice that needs to be made. Those that want tech can still get it in the base versions of the other muscle cars. And while these competing base interiors still look modern, the base mustang has a tiny screen and phone keypad that's straight out of a 90s Mercedes. That's the problem.

PatrickGT · May 4, 2017

Bullitt said:
All you guys are missing the point. The Civic and Spark references were to show how even the cheapest of cars come standard with this stuff. The problem is the Challenger and Camaro both come standard with larger touchscreens. So no, there is no sacrifice that needs to be made. Those that want tech can still get it in the base versions of the other muscle cars. And while these competing base interiors still look modern, the base mustang has a tiny screen and phone keypad that's straight out of a 90s Mercedes. That's the problem.

The Challenger directly shares a platform with the other LH cars (300, Charger, etc) that was developed decades ago by Mercedes-Benz for a three-gen-ago E Class... that should explain why they can integrate more tech for similar pricing. The economies of scale from distributing the platform over multiple product lines alone would cover this, not to mention the lack of R&D money on platform dev when they were owned by Daimler.

Similarly, the Camaro shares its platform with multiple vehicles (ATS, CTS, etc) so it inherits a stronger CAN-BUS architecture that is easier to integrate these features into, and the economies of scale very much play into this as well. That's how Camaro got such an advanced chassis, by inheriting it from a more expensive vehicle.

Now, what does Ford share the Mustang platform with? Nothing. They have to spend all that money just to develop this car. They aren't making a Civic sedan, hatch, coupe and selling half a million worldwide every year so that kind of thinking just isn't applicable. They aren't making an Opel and a Vauxhaul version of it either like Chevrolet is with the Cruze... which is inherently cheaper to design in the first place since not only does it share chassis architecture with multiple other products (like the Civic does with CR-V, for example... HUGE volume, gitantic economies of scale here) but it is also a FWD economy car.

So, this is why the comparison is completely flat. You just can't make one.

PatrickGT · May 4, 2017

I will say that if you are all OK with not having a single special edition (no CS, no GT350, no GT500, no Bullit, no Mach...none of it, ever) and no special drivetrains (no boost, no FPC...) then you can probably talk Ford into dropping more tech into the base cars since they'd recover a ton of R&D dollars.

Now, who wants that?

ApollosWar89 · May 4, 2017

c-rizzle said:
Not a good comparison. A Mustang GT engine ($7k) and powertrain ($4k) costs more than those Civics you're comparing them too. So Ford skimps on the interior/options, b/c they have so much money in the engine, suspension, powertrain, etc.. Then they can also make more profit on those extra big screen, nav, stereo, options.

Exactly.

Your argument doesn't hold water. It's like trying to justify 10 more hp for no AC coming standard in a vehicle. Please explain the Camero and Challenger comparison to the base Mustang in regards to the interior. I'm relatively new to the Mustang scene and when I first got a glimpse of a base GT at a dealership I laughed and asked the salesman why it had a little phone sized screen in the dash. Except a basic smartphone is about a decade more advanced than the tech in a base GT.

IMO the Base Camero/Challenger interior is far better than the Base GT

But when it comes to premium upgrades I prefer the GT over the others.

PatrickGT · May 4, 2017

I explained that difference above. Platform-sharing. Simple.

Bullitt · May 4, 2017

PatrickGT said:
The Challenger directly shares a platform with the other LH cars (300, Charger, etc) that was developed decades ago by Mercedes-Benz for a three-gen-ago E Class... that should explain why they can integrate more tech for similar pricing. The economies of scale from distributing the platform over multiple product lines alone would cover this, not to mention the lack of R&D money on platform dev when they were owned by Daimler.

Similarly, the Camaro shares its platform with multiple vehicles (ATS, CTS, etc) so it inherits a stronger CAN-BUS architecture that is easier to integrate these features into, and the economies of scale very much play into this as well. That's how Camaro got such an advanced chassis, by inheriting it from a more expensive vehicle.

Now, what does Ford share the Mustang platform with? Nothing. They have to spend all that money just to develop this car. They aren't making a Civic sedan, hatch, coupe and selling half a million worldwide every year so that kind of thinking just isn't applicable. They aren't making an Opel and a Vauxhaul version of it either like Chevrolet is with the Cruze... which is inherently cheaper to design in the first place since not only does it share chassis architecture with multiple other products (like the Civic does with CR-V, for example... HUGE volume, gitantic economies of scale here) but it is also a FWD economy car.

So, this is why the comparison is completely flat. You just can't make one.

Whether or not Ford has good reasons for not including more tech (like it being more expensive to develop and produce), it is still cross-shopped with the other two fairly often. Your average consumer doesn't know everything you mentioned above, they just say "hey the base interior gets me more stuff in the other two than it does in the Mustang. Maybe the Mustang isn't as good of a value."

Thankfully the Mustang seems to be fairly immune to these objections so far and sales are strong. But I'd be curious to track base model sales numbers of the Mustang from 2015-2020 and bet on a drop-off of base sales compared to it's competitors. There's only so many old-school people that don't care about tech. For this car to continue it's sales success it's gonna have to keep it's appeal to the masses at an attractive price.

ApollosWar89 · May 4, 2017

PatrickGT said:
I will say that if you are all OK with not having a single special edition (no CS, no GT350, no GT500, no Bullit, no Mach...none of it, ever) and no special drivetrains (no boost, no FPC...) then you can probably talk Ford into dropping more tech into the base cars since they'd recover a ton of R&D dollars.

Now, who wants that?

It doesn't help that Ford has been financially hurting for years.

PatrickGT · May 4, 2017

Oh I agree that most don't know the above, but it turns out that most buyers don't really care about a digital dash and all of these features either. They care about price, MPG, and reliability.

That's why so many Civics get sold. ;)

But, those are the reasons for it... and it makes sense, kinda. It would make more sense if Ford would sell me a Mustang sedan.

PatrickGT · May 4, 2017

ApollosWar89 said:
It doesn't help that Ford has been financially hurting for years.

That's their stock price, which isn't a total indicator of financial health.

Ford didn't take bailout money in the Great Recession where GM and Daimler-Chrysler/FCA (also.. BMW lol South Carolina plant) did. Ford didn't go through bankruptcy (GM) and have to buy itself back to avoid debt collection and an eventual collapse... nor were they forced to sell to a shit Italian company to stay alive (Chrysler).

So, about that financial health... they made $1.6B USD in the first quarter. That's profit, not deficit... and that is healthy.

ApollosWar89 · May 4, 2017

PatrickGT said:
Oh I agree that most don't know the above, but it turns out that most buyers don't really care about a digital dash and all of these features either. They care about price, MPG, and reliability.

That's why so many Civics get sold. ;)

But, those are the reasons for it... and it makes sense, kinda. It would make more sense if Ford would sell me a Mustang sedan.

But civics do have digital dash and all those features... plus great price, MPG, and reliability.

They sell well because of keeping the standards that you mention plus constantly updating their features despite being a really cheap car.

2018 Mustang Fleet Brochure

Bullitt

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c-rizzle

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Storm

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PatrickGT

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PatrickGT

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Bullitt

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PatrickGT

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PatrickGT

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ApollosWar89

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PatrickGT

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Bullitt

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ApollosWar89

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PatrickGT

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PatrickGT

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ApollosWar89

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