Track the GT350 or Build a Track Car?

firestarter2 · Nov 14, 2017

So I finished my first season on the GT350 the car performed flawlessly but I now have a dilemma.

The care is very expensive to track, The insurance per event is ~400. And the car uses a lot of expensive consumables.

I have a old lexus is300 (RWD 220 HP 3200 lbs) sitting in my back yard with a blown engine. I am debating turn it into a track car. I will never be close to the GT350 in speed but I can put 16 inch wheels on it, I wouldn't get track insurance dropping expense of the day in half. It might get better gas mileage on the track LOL. I expect assuming no mechanical issues it will be 60 to 70% cheaper to run.

Because of all the crap on the blown car I could probably turn it into a track car with no out of pocket expense.

Alternatively I could turn it into a DD.

Obviously there is something nice about having one of the fastest cars on the track on any given day.

BlkGT3 · Nov 14, 2017

firestarter2 said:
So I finished my first season on the GT350 the car performed flawlessly but I now have a dilemma.

The care is very expensive to track, The insurance per event is ~400. And the car uses a lot of expensive consumables.

I have a old lexus is300 (RWD 220 HP 3200 lbs) sitting in my back yard with a blown engine. I am debating turn it into a track car. I will never be close to the GT350 in speed but I can put 16 inch wheels on it, I wouldn't get track insurance dropping expense of the day in half. It might get better gas mileage on the track LOL. I expect assuming no mechanical issues it will be 60 to 70% cheaper to run.

Because of all the crap on the blown car I could probably turn it into a track car with no out of pocket expense.

Alternatively I could turn it into a DD.

Obviously there is something nice about having one of the fastest cars on the track on any given day.

I track my GT350 but don't push it to my limits, notice I said my limits. I have a caged gutted 8th gen Civic Si that I push much harder in NASA TT as it is safer and the downside $$ loss is minimal.

I used to think I could afford to write off an expensive car but when I did $15k in damage to my GT2 at VIR climbing S's I changed my tune.

Peter

snaproll · Nov 14, 2017

I tracked street mustangs for a few years before going racing. Glad I did. Nothing beats a V8. Life is too short to spend a bunch of effort on a real track car that doesn’t fit into a race class given that there are plenty of cheap race cars available such as fox AI or Asedan cars or even a spec e30 car. Then you have something to sell when you figure out what you really want to do.

MrCincinnati · Nov 14, 2017

I'm sure there are plenty of GT350s that will never see the track...

that aside - I don't really see the point of owning this car unless I take it to a track.

track consumables are expensive and nothing to sneeze at --- but I would argue the 'luxury' of owning this car just to flex on the street is a much higher expense proposition.

Next Phase · Nov 14, 2017

I just tracked my R @ NCCAR and VIR recently and plan to do a number of events next year. I would love to track it every weekend if I had the time and funds.

Realistically, I see 5 to 6 events next year (more if the boss allows it) and it will get expensive quick. (Especially with track insurance).

For me, I don't think I'd have anywhere near the amount of fun in anything else and I've tracked Ariel Atoms and Vipers (Gen 2 and Gen 5). What's your limiting factor? Is it the cost of consumables and insurance? (For me, its time... 2 small kids) I've thought about going with an inexpensive car that I could throw away / avoid track insurance. That really would kill the fun...YMMV.

Muligan · Nov 14, 2017

I've tracked a variety of cars and by far, the most fun was my former Bondurant school car. Those things were available back in the early 2000s when they were switching from Ford to GM sponsorship for around $10k and were really well built Roush cars with lots of handling, safety, and reliability mods. I took it a bit further with a more dedicated suspension set-up for not much money and had a blast with it before selling it to a friend, who continues to enjoy it. While it blew through tires and brakes super fast, those parts weren't too bad when compared to rotors, pads, and tires for the GT350.

My advice would be that any car you put on the track will be expensive - and will consume a bunch of time - so you'd better really like it, if not love it, before you make the commitment.

snaproll · Nov 14, 2017

Looking back on the finance side, I’d say track insurance is a rounding error as you have the benefit of protection for engine and trans failures etc with warranty. Hard to beat that. If you track it hard, something’s going to break. That said, I put at least 5,000 track miles on a lightly modified 2000 Cobra R and it never complained. This car is waaaay a better car than the 2000 R.

I spend at least $400/weekend on race gas as a form of insurance as does everyone else I know racing a coyote in AI. Too many melt downs running pump gas.

oldbmwfan · Nov 14, 2017

Three considerations: fun, safety, and cost. Can't optimize them all.

Fun: HPDE is fun, but wheel to wheel racing is next-level fun. If you think going to the track regularly is something you'll do, give some thought to whether racing is in your future. If so, think about classes that get big fields in your area and buy an already-built car, which costs pennies on the dollar vs. building your own (I speak from experience). Power and speed is almost irrelevant when racing; having closely-matched cars and good competition that pushes you is much more critical to having a good time.

Safety: if you're going to the track and pushing yourself, you will eventually have an incident. If you're driving around well inside the traction envelope and not trying to get faster, then maybe being at the track isn't the best use of your free weekends anway. If you do this enough, an incident becomes more likely, and when that happens the speed you're at and the safety gear you have will determine your outcome. I would much, much rather have an incident in my race car with cage, harnesses, head restraint seats, nets, and fire system than in my GT350R.

Cost: you've noticed the consumable costs + insurance costs. That's true of virtually anything fast/powerful. Component costs scale with rarity and performance level. You can run a Miata all season for very little cash, UNLESS you're wheel-to-wheel racing and trying to lead the pack - even in Miata sizes, 2 sets of tires per weekend costs a lot. Ultimately, the biggest expense is tires, but dedicated track cars bring a lot of other costs (trailer, tow vehicle, storage space).

In the end, figure out what you're after. If you want to hear the Voodoo at full boogie and have a lot of fun, take the Shelby to the track, pay the high per-event cost, and with the insurance, your primary risk is a safety risk of an off at very high speed given the car's capabilities and the lack of track-level safety gear. If you think going to the track is a hobby you'd get into regardless of car, go buy a built race car.

If you go for a built car, the LAST thing you'd ever want to do is build up a track-dedicated Lexus that will have no racing series and minimal aftermarket support. You'll spend a ton of money, it will have no resale value at all, and you'll only be able to do DEs in it, which you might someday get bored of. Sell the Lexus, go find a NASA GTS-built E46 BMW or a Spec Miata or an AIX Mustang. Spend $8k-30k for a built car, plan to replace a few wear items, and go have fun on track with safety gear and peace of mind.

I have a race car that I am currently rebuilding, and I have been tracking street cars in the meantime to get my fix (including the R). It is awesome fun on track and very addictive, but it is still two full adrenaline clicks below wheel-to-wheel even in my low-powered E36 BMW (which despite the power deficit, is only a few seconds slower around Mid-Ohio than the R).

firestarter2 · Nov 14, 2017

oldbmwfan said:
Three considerations: fun, safety, and cost. Can't optimize them all.

Fun: HPDE is fun, but wheel to wheel racing is next-level fun. If you think going to the track regularly is something you'll do, give some thought to whether racing is in your future. If so, think about classes that get big fields in your area and buy an already-built car, which costs pennies on the dollar vs. building your own (I speak from experience). Power and speed is almost irrelevant when racing; having closely-matched cars and good competition that pushes you is much more critical to having a good time.

Safety: if you're going to the track and pushing yourself, you will eventually have an incident. If you're driving around well inside the traction envelope and not trying to get faster, then maybe being at the track isn't the best use of your free weekends anway. If you do this enough, an incident becomes more likely, and when that happens the speed you're at and the safety gear you have will determine your outcome. I would much, much rather have an incident in my race car with cage, harnesses, head restraint seats, nets, and fire system than in my GT350R.

Cost: you've noticed the consumable costs + insurance costs. That's true of virtually anything fast/powerful. Component costs scale with rarity and performance level. You can run a Miata all season for very little cash, UNLESS you're wheel-to-wheel racing and trying to lead the pack - even in Miata sizes, 2 sets of tires per weekend costs a lot. Ultimately, the biggest expense is tires, but dedicated track cars bring a lot of other costs (trailer, tow vehicle, storage space).

In the end, figure out what you're after. If you want to hear the Voodoo at full boogie and have a lot of fun, take the Shelby to the track, pay the high per-event cost, and with the insurance, your primary risk is a safety risk of an off at very high speed given the car's capabilities and the lack of track-level safety gear. If you think going to the track is a hobby you'd get into regardless of car, go buy a built race car.

If you go for a built car, the LAST thing you'd ever want to do is build up a track-dedicated Lexus that will have no racing series and minimal aftermarket support. You'll spend a ton of money, it will have no resale value at all, and you'll only be able to do DEs in it, which you might someday get bored of. Sell the Lexus, go find a NASA GTS-built E46 BMW or a Spec Miata or an AIX Mustang. Spend $8k-30k for a built car, plan to replace a few wear items, and go have fun on track with safety gear and peace of mind.

I have a race car that I am currently rebuilding, and I have been tracking street cars in the meantime to get my fix (including the R). It is awesome fun on track and very addictive, but it is still two full adrenaline clicks below wheel-to-wheel even in my low-powered E36 BMW (which despite the power deficit, is only a few seconds slower around Mid-Ohio than the R).

Good point I dont see me racing any time soon but that is something to thing about. Like I said the only thing it would cost me is time on the Lexus since I have the car and parts all over the place.

Next Phase said:
I just tracked my R @ NCCAR and VIR recently and plan to do a number of events next year. I would love to track it every weekend if I had the time and funds.

Realistically, I see 5 to 6 events next year (more if the boss allows it) and it will get expensive quick. (Especially with track insurance).

For me, I don't think I'd have anywhere near the amount of fun in anything else and I've tracked Ariel Atoms and Vipers (Gen 2 and Gen 5). What's your limiting factor? Is it the cost of consumables and insurance? (For me, its time... 2 small kids) I've thought about going with an inexpensive car that I could throw away / avoid track insurance. That really would kill the fun...YMMV.

Its really a financial question. I run with guys in civics they are fast enough to be fun but their cost is way less. The real killer is insurance. I am going to look into getting a policy for the season next year. My breaks and tires lasted for the year which is much better than I expected. My budget is probably 12 track days a year.

Also being slower you have more cars to play with on the track.

DirtRoadTrip · Nov 14, 2017

I agree with the feedback herein. GO buy a spec iron s197 professionally buitl for $25K and go have a ball. If you want to go faster, swap in an aluminator and go racing in AI for about $8K more. You'll turn equivalent if not faster times in a well prepped AI car than a GT350.

Zitrosounds · Nov 14, 2017

I think tracking the 350 is a no brainier and a must. How often you do it should be the limiting factor due to cost. I have recently taken on a project with a friend to build a Chump-car and will be racing it this December and till we get bored of it or kill it. This way I get my competitive itch taken care of and also track my R for leisure. I do not daily the R so that saves me cost on consumables.

firestarter2 · Nov 14, 2017

DirtRoadTrip said:
I agree with the feedback herein. GO buy a spec iron s197 professionally buitl for $25K and go have a ball. If you want to go faster, swap in an aluminator and go racing in AI for about $8K more. You'll turn equivalent if not faster times in a well prepped AI car than a GT350.

Oh I also can not do the trailer thing yet. My truck is to old to tow with and no room for a trailer. Till my truck dies thats out.

nastang87xx · Nov 14, 2017

I track my GT350 and absolutely find it a pure thrill. But the temptation to find a cheaper side C6 Grand Sport for thrashing on is very real...cage it, brake pad it, cam it, tire it. Done. 500 deep horsepower carrying 3400lbs is no joke.

Hack · Nov 14, 2017

My plan is to use the GT350 as I please with mostly commuting and only a few track events per year and I will wait and see. As the car gets older and I have more miles on it I might add more and more safety gear and turn it into more of a dedicated track car. I don't have the time or money to spend lots of time at the track no matter what car I run.

If I were you I would sell the Lexus. If it's a good car you'll get some money for it. Use that money for consumables for the GT350.

firestarter2 · Nov 14, 2017

Hack said:
My plan is to use the GT350 as I please with mostly commuting and only a few track events per year and I will wait and see. As the car gets older and I have more miles on it I might add more and more safety gear and turn it into more of a dedicated track car. I don't have the time or money to spend lots of time at the track no matter what car I run.

If I were you I would sell the Lexus. If it's a good car you'll get some money for it. Use that money for consumables for the GT350.

Yeah that is a good point I can probably use the money from it to cover the insurance cost for a couple years.

Track the GT350 or Build a Track Car?

firestarter2

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BlkGT3

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snaproll

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MrCincinnati

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Next Phase

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Muligan

ARRR!

snaproll

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oldbmwfan

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firestarter2

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DirtRoadTrip

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Zitrosounds

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firestarter2

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nastang87xx

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Hack

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firestarter2

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