Harness without a roll bar

What's everyone's thoughts on running harnesses without a roll bar? A friend who used to run his M3 at Summit Point said it was a bad idea. In a roll over, the harness keeps the driver upright in the seat so when the roof caves in, it caves in on the driver unlike a conventional seat belt that's more forgiving and doesn't lock like a 4-point. This makes sense to me but maybe I'm missing something. Thoughts?

Yes it is a bad idea.

BoomBoy said:

Yes it is a bad idea.

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+1

I saw the other thread on here about the harnesses that can be used without a roll bar and it got me thinking.

I had an old Celica with 5-points but it also had a roll bar, just make sense. I'd like to add a roll bar to the Shelby but my kids, 11 and 13, still fit in the back seat so it may have to wait a while.

It can be done but then you risk your safety for the exact reason you stated in your OP. Its your neck on the line not ours, so your call

krt22 said:

It can be done but then you risk your safety for the exact reason you stated in your OP. Its your neck on the line not ours, so your call

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I'm not doing it, just wondered if I was missing something, like maybe something changed, break away seats or something ;).

I think it is also prudent to be using a HANS if you are running harnesses.

The Schroth quick fit is a 4pt belt system that plugs into pre existing seat belts. It does not require a roll bar

TheDeadCow said:

The Schroth quick fit is a 4pt belt system that plugs into pre existing seat belts. It does not require a roll bar

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I have a hans with mine. The risk of a modern car roof collapsing on a roll over is very slim. Times change.

locknload said:

What's everyone's thoughts on running harnesses without a roll bar? A friend who used to run his M3 at Summit Point said it was a bad idea. In a roll over, the harness keeps the driver upright in the seat so when the roof caves in, it caves in on the driver unlike a conventional seat belt that's more forgiving and doesn't lock like a 4-point. This makes sense to me but maybe I'm missing something. Thoughts?

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I believe some of that logic assumes a fixed back seat also.

Edit roll bar != roll cage. Id not assume a 4 point roll bar would offer much protection.

firestarter2 said:

I have a hans with mine. The risk of a modern car roof collapsing on a roll over is very slim. Times change.

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Same setup here. Tracks vary as well, but (*knocks on wood*) I have never seen nor heard of a rollover at my local track, which has virtually no elevation changes. YMMV.

Fact of life...most guys who track these cars in your normal track day non competitive events aren't going to install roll bars. :shrug: So the Schoth Quik Fit belts are a nice upgrade from the stock shoulder belt.

My dilemma spelled out in one thread. I believe there is no clear cut answer. Although I'd love for someone to convince me one way or the other.

Seems like stock belts, risk death by basil skull fracture on a hard straight frontal impact.
Or Schroth and risk death in a roll over.

I think modern cars do have more rollover protection than older cars, but I don't believe there is any hard evidence to say how much better they are. I'd love to see evidence if anyone can provide any.

The somewhat famous picture of the S197 on it's roof with the roll bar pads that poked through the floor sticking up seems to say that S197s aren't any better.

For the record, I have three friends involved in on track instances, 2 of the 3 were rollovers. One at SIR, one at Summit Main.

At the moment, I don't know what to do. I hate the feeling of my helmet on my head with no tethers, but don't want to spend over a grand to risk death in another type of crash.

I guess one could make the argument that's you'll drive better strapped in tight with the Schroth, or the counter argument, maybe you'll be going even faster and drive closer to the edge...

JT1 said:

My dilemma spelled out in one thread. I believe there is no clear cut answer. Although I'd love for someone to convince me one way or the other.

Seems like stock belts, risk death by basil skull fracture on a hard straight frontal impact.
Or Schroth and risk death in a roll over.

I think modern cars do have more rollover protection than older cars, but I don't believe there is any hard evidence to say how much better they are. I'd love to see evidence if anyone can provide any.

The somewhat famous picture of the S197 on it's roof with the roll bar pads that poked through the floor sticking up seems to say that S197s aren't any better.

For the record, I have three friends involved in on track instances, 2 of the 3 were rollovers. One at SIR, one at Summit Main.

At the moment, I don't know what to do. I hate the feeling of my helmet on my head with no tethers, but don't want to spend over a grand to risk death in another type of crash.

I guess one could make the argument that's you'll drive better strapped in tight with the Schroth, or the counter argument, maybe you'll be going even faster and closer to the edge...

Click to expand...

I'm with you and my line of thinking goes like this. If you are in a crash that is strong enough to crush the roof in etc, I'm not sure you are any better off with just a regular seat belt on.

I'm definitely no crash or track expert (always willing to learn), but my current line of thinking is I'd rather be strapped into the car tighter during a major crash than less so.

Here is the crash test http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/ford/mustang-2-door-coupe

They have a roof rating.

There is risk in life.