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Hi Tein

Your continual re-hashing of an unfortunate circumstance between you and our company is becoming diluted into perspective daily by the positive experience and outcomes from customers Australia and New Zealand wide possibly now in the hundreds.
As has always been the case, if you feel you have a problem with us that needs attending to we would be more than happy to help resolve it.
If you have lost all faith in us , your point has been made continually and publicly for some time. Our company has never had any malice with you so we ask that you respect our right to post our replies and products.
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Hi Tein

Your continual re-hashing of an unfortunate circumstance between you and our company is becoming diluted into perspective daily by the positive experience and outcomes from customers Australia and New Zealand wide possibly now in the hundreds.
As has always been the case, if you feel you have a problem with us that needs attending to we would be more than happy to help resolve it.
If you have lost all faith in us , your point has been made continually and publicly for some time. Our company has never had any malice with you so we ask that you respect our right to post our replies and products.
Actually, apart from my post today (providing relevant feedback about the topic of the thread) I have only posted in ONE thread about this issue - the one in my signature.

Don't make me out to be "continually" harassing you.

Streetfighter - If there is a problem we will "dilute it into perspective"
 
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I'm interested in the 280 kW power package for my ecoboost as the first mod. It's my daily driver so low-mid range poke is really what I'm after.

Do you have any sound files or sample dyno charts for it? I want an exhaust that's more interesting than stock but not too loud or droning on the highway. I've briefly spoken with the Streetfighter rep here in Canberra but they haven't done any ecoboost packages as yet, only GTs, so can't really tell me what they're like from first hand experience.

Does the tune require 98 octane fuel?

Also with the warranty. Is regular servicing through Ford sufficient to maintain the warranty?

Thanks in advance for any info. ��
Hi

No sound files as yet.
Our Streetfighter exhaust will give you a deeper racier sound on an Eco Boost.
As there are not many demo vehicles available, I am happy for you to have the exhaust fitted to have a drive and listen at no cost. This way you can decided properly if you want to keep it on the vehicle or revert back to stock without any charge.
We recommend at least tuning to 95 octane fuel with 98 octane being the preference for best results.
With our 3 Year 100,000km driveline warranty , you are able to service the car at any Ford dealer Australia wide or alternatively Streetfighter Specialist Workshop.

Please call me on any questions.
08 82999 998
David
 

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Hi

No sound files as yet.
Our Streetfighter exhaust will give you a deeper racier sound on an Eco Boost.
As there are not many demo vehicles available, I am happy for you to have the exhaust fitted to have a drive and listen at no cost. This way you can decided properly if you want to keep it on the vehicle or revert back to stock without any charge.
We recommend at least tuning to 95 octane fuel with 98 octane being the preference for best results.
With our 3 Year 100,000km driveline warranty , you are able to service the car at any Ford dealer Australia wide or alternatively Streetfighter Specialist Workshop.

Please call me on any questions.
08 82999 998
David
Sorry for not responding earlier. For some reason I didn't get a notification that you had replied. Must have got caught up in the "discussion" above.

Your offer to have the exhaust fitted and removed at no cost if I don't like it is very generous. However I have since taken up another offer with a competitor so I can't take you up on it.

Thanks again

Michael
 
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The following is a direct comparison between a car tuned by Streetfighter and that same car with a U.S. based company Tune (Lund).

First the background. The car in question is running a full Streetfighter exhaust (great product). No other power mods, stock airbox. The car was running the Streetfighter tune for 12 months. The owner has just changed from the Streetfighter tune to a Lund tune. Prior to flashing the Lund tune the Streetfighter tune was logged using the nGauge. The Lund tune was then flashed and logged on the same fuel, same time, same day, same road, same everything. Note that the Lund tune is the base tune with absolutely no revisions.

The image below shows the Spark and knock retard for the two tunes. The Lund tune is spot on. Adds timing through the run peaking at just under 25 degrees which is what you can expect on Australian 98. No Knock activity. The Streetfighter tune begins to see Knock activity at 4500 rpm and peaks at 4 degrees of retard. The timing over 6000rpm is all over the place.

The Streetfighter tune was also running a little bit leaner than I would be comfortable with at 0.87 lambda. This is not unsafe and many tuners would be comfortable tuning at this, however given the knock activity it isn't great in this case. Also noticed that the Streetfighter tune still has some torque control active on a third gear WOT pull (TQ Source 13 - OSCMOD), unsure what impact this is having.

I've given you the facts, you can form your own opinion. Keep in mind these results are for the conditions present at the time of logging only and may be different under different conditions. However this is an example of real world conditions.
Streetfighter vs Lund Spark and Knock.jpg
 

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Hi Josh

Timing on the Mustang is controlled entirely by torque, knock and fuel control
This means that in our tuning we do not adjust (add or remove) timing in any way.
To do so at the modification level described has no real impact due to the ECU operating in a closed loop scenario.

We leave timing as per the Manufacturers MAP.
The torque levels demanded will search and find MBT (mean best timing).
If there is any knock detected the ECU will monitor this and remove accordingly to the appropriate timing level.
If there is no knock detected the ECU will continue to add timing until it detects knock
Up to 10 degrees timing can be removed or added automatically by the ECU.
This strategy is employed to protect the engine in many varying conditions, while maintain best performance.
This is normal operation.

Many tuners choose to drastically lessen or even remove down to 0 the knock control retard levels. Yes, you can tune to this and create best power in ideal conditions, however when any form of knock contol is required , there is no safety net to reduce timing as normal.

While tuning many Mustang Australia wide we have found that fuels differ, conditions differ therefore drastically , reducing or completely removing knock retard is not offered in our performance package street tuning.
Streetfighter offer 3 Year Factory Driveline Protection whith all our Performance packages and tuning
We see this scenario while logging standard tune files set by factory every day on dyno.
To lessen drastically or remove knock retard only becomes a controlled fuel competition environment tune, eg drags, dyno days etc scenario for best power.

We have found .87 Lambda to be spot on for power, economy, reliability.
Torque control is how this system operates, therefore to log appropriate torque control is absolutely normal.

Good information, however road logging is far from being custom tuning.
Without having the vehicle I suspect what you may be logging is the SF tune entering a Torque control for traction, rev limit, knock for fuel or many other possibilities. .



We carry out up to 10-15 power runs on dyno to exactly log monitor and correctly tune such things.
We log up to 100 parameters at the same time to give us a full and true story of how the ECU and vehicle is operating, not 2.

Road testing is not a recommended method for repeated and exacting information. It is a final check.

 
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Hello David,

To be honest, from what you have said it doesn't sound like you are tuning the cars at all. How can you claim to be tuning the cars without adjusting the spark tables? Do you just jump in and adjust the fuel demand to 0.87 lambda? This would explain why your tunes fail to impress on road and have driveability issues.

Just to clarify Lund do not remove the knock retard. We have seen it active in cases of poor fuel being used. However they tune to avoid it being required (i.e recorded knock activity) under normal circumstances. Relying on the knock retard to avoid serious detonation is lazy tuning and dangerous. You will never achieve MBT relying on the knock control as it will pull spark far lower than MBT. This explains the complete mess the spark becomes over 6000rpm in your tune on road.

Also to clarify, the torque control was present for the entire 3rd gear WOT pulls.

It's open to debate whether road testing/tuning is better/worse than a dyno, however it is undeniable that if your tune cannot perform in a real world on road condition it is far from a good tune.
 
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Josh

I say the following respectfully without trying to negate or downplay your thought/views in anyway.
It is clear from comments made in your last post that you do not have a full understanding of torque based tuning.

Without thorough explanation I will try to clarify as best possible in a paragraph, torque control and how it affects timing.

Vehicles with torque based strategies requires the engine/vehicle sensors to monitor all systems.
The sensors feed information to the ECU, which in turn makes appropriate adjustments to the tune calibration.
This new adjustment then is re-read by the sensors and if required further adjustments are made by the ECU. This cycle happens in milliseconds continousely for the life of the vehicle.We call this a closed loop system.
The ECU calibrations are written with low and high parameters within which the cycles can run in closed loop.

In the case of closed loop timing the reference parameters are set set by the Spark Borderline Knock Tables(SBKT) and the Mean Best Timing Tables ( MBT).
These 2 tables can be loosely called the demand timing and the ideal best timing

The SBKT table is where the ECU references its initial timing settings.
This is where you would make changes if you wanted your set timing reference to be higher or lower than the standard setting.

The MBT table is the ideal maximum timing for best power, economy and performance. As the name implies Mean Best Timing is where the engine would run at its best should all conditions be absolutely ideal in absolutely ideal environments.
This means perfect fuel, perfect temperatures, perfect barometric pressures, perfect engine ( no smoke blow by , worn engine) perfect parts (spark plugs, ignition system etc)etc ,etc, etc. In other words. all the planets align for unrealistic perfect conditions.

As mentioned previously, to run the timing as a closed loop system becomes the job of the Knock sensors.
The knock sensors will report back to the ECU any hint of knock allowing for the ECU to remove timing accordingly from the referenced SBKT table.
The ECU continuously monitors the knock sensor for any knock.
Should it not detect knock for a pre-determined period , the ECU then allows the spark to advance steadily higher towards the MBT table settings.
Once it starts to detect a hint of knock, the ECU will then remove spark steadily back down towards the referenced SBKT table settings.
This is a continuous never ending cycle, that acts in a closed loop condition.

I explain all above to try and help understand knock advance towards MBT and knock retard towards SBKT.
The amount of knock advance allowed is also referenced to the Knock Retard Limit Tables and Knock Advance Limit Tables.
The set limits for Mustang are 10 degrees either up or down.


The purpose of closed loop timing is to allow the engine to run at its premium regardless of any conditions. It will increase timing if all is perfect and remove timing to protect the engine.
These parameters are preset by the manufacturers and are used to create best performance combined with best long term reliability in all conditions.

As did Streetfighter on early Mustang tunes ,many tuners will remove or modify the tables mentioned to point where the range of which the parameters run are lessened or even removed.
This is fine for short term gains and premium conditions with best fuel, perfect engine sensors,new engines etec etc however not ideal for the long term reliability and performance of a vehicle in all varying conditions.

For the above reasons , for all our street performance naturally aspirated vehicles, Streetfighter choose to tune with spark protection as per manufactures settings and allow the knock retard and advance sensors to do the work they were designed for.
As an example SBKT 15-16 degrees and MBT at 25-26 degress. Knock retard and advance at 10 degress each way.
This gives for a full range of conditions while delivering premium performance.
Should we require tuning for a dyno day , track event, drag race, we would lessen all the parameters to run within a certain window due to the availability of controlled fuels and conditions to demand for best power.
Should we tune for a supercharged engine we would need to remove timing from both SBKT and MBT tables to bring down the timing window required to for forced induction applications to work in.

I intended to write one paragraph however It took this many and I have just touched on the basics for Torque control timing strategies.
Beyond all the above is how the timing is used to reduce or add torque for varying conditions eg traction control , stability control, decel, accel, transmission protection etc etc.

Without trying to judge other companies tuning methods either way, the explanation above is only regarding how Streetfighter tune our vehicles.

 
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David,

No I do not have a full understanding of Torque based tuning and I wouldn't claim to. I don't do this for a living. However what you have provided is not a description of torque based tuning, just the means by which the ecu goes about achieving torque control.

You have provided some great information in your reply, all of which is accurate. However all you have demonstrated here is your ability to regurgitate information from the Coyote Cookbook.

I am not going to continue to argue this with you, no doubt you have plenty more of the Coyote Cookbook you can quote (not all of which I will understand) to make yourself look like you know what you are talking about. But whether you can apply this to developing a good, safe tune is another question. I will just let the logs I posted above do the talking, I know which tune I would prefer to have in my car.
 
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Josh,

From your comments It is becoming obvious that your posts are intended to somehow discredit our company.

Firstly you post logs without any supporting information.
As posted Streetfighter carry out over 100 varying individual pieces of information over 10-15 power runs on dyno with road tuning as a final test to give us all the information required to asses any condition.
You have posted 1 log without any supporting data.Is the car rev limiting, is traction control active, is clutch/transmission protection active, is is simply reducing maximum allowed torque ???.

Secondly you try and use this limited snapshot data to try and discredit our tuning by trying to compare it with another company that I have respect for.

Thirdly you accuse Streetfighter of textbook copying after we have spent over 1 hour posting a 5 paragraph genuine reply to explain our tuning methods in response to your comments regarding our tuning.

Lastly and after admitting you do not have a full understanding and do not tune for a living, continue to insinuate Streetfighter do not supply good safe tuning.

From the responses and comments you make, I now feel that I am spending time responding to your agenda rather than honest inquiry.

Streetfighter has tuned close to 100 vehicles Australia and New Zealand wide successfully, reliably and honestly. Along the way we have continually improved and developed our tuning to best suit Australian and individual owner conditions. We have always responded to any issue or complaint along the way should there be a genuine need.
Should any Streetfighter customer have any issues we are at the end of the phone and have dealers in every Australian capital city to take care of any requirements.
We back ourselves by offering our customers a 3 Year Factory Warranty Protection on all our tunes and packages.
We will never profess to being perfect , however we will always ensure our customers have the very best service and product we can offer.
Should the log file you posted , truly have been any issue/problem with the tune, we would of gladly checked it all out for the customer to ensure a perfect result.
I too, have nothing further to say re-this line of discussion.
However moving forward , I will be happy to discuss any relevant and honest tuning questions or issues on this thread.
 
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Hi David,
Firstly, thanks for supplying the tuning information earlier. Yes, it was a lengthy reply and I'm sure it took some time to assemble all of that.
As you'd well appreciate, the main function of the forum is to educate people in "how" things work, therefore allowing them to make an informed purchasing decision. Personally, I much prefer this methodology over "ours is the best".
As to the strategies employed by various tuners, they will always differ, particularly for those companies like yourself who are attempting to offer a driveline warranty.
Having said all of that, I've only had exposure to one vehicle that was running your tune. Unfortunately it has genuinely failed to live up to the expectations. The owner persisted with it for around 10 months before driving a car tuned by an alternative tuner, at which point he jumped ship. His car basically lacked the mid range punch of a similarly equipped vehicle on the alternative tune.
I appreciate that you are willing to address tune issues retrospectively, however, realistically a full comprehensive dyno tune shouldn't be beaten by a "mail order" tune from another country. It should by definition be "optimal". It kind of defeats the purpose of the whole dyno tuning spiel does it not?
How would a customer know that their tune isn't up to the task unless they benchmark it against the competition? Now, without reference to your company in particular but rather a blanket statement, I'd suggest that "less than optimal" tunes are leaving dyno workshops every single day of the week and the customer is none the wiser.
The owner drives out with a smirk on his face because HIS car is "dyno tuned".
So, I have a question.
Given that you have streetfighter workshops across Australia, are you guys supplying the strategies that you want these people to employ on the car or are the operators of those workshops in charge of what goes into the tuning?
To be more succinct: Is Streetfighter in charge of what leaves those workshops?
 
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Hi David,
Firstly, thanks for supplying the tuning information earlier. Yes, it was a lengthy reply and I'm sure it took some time to assemble all of that.
As you'd well appreciate, the main function of the forum is to educate people in "how" things work, therefore allowing them to make an informed purchasing decision. Personally, I much prefer this methodology over "ours is the best".
As to the strategies employed by various tuners, they will always differ, particularly for those companies like yourself who are attempting to offer a driveline warranty.
Having said all of that, I've only had exposure to one vehicle that was running your tune. Unfortunately it has genuinely failed to live up to the expectations. The owner persisted with it for around 10 months before driving a car tuned by an alternative tuner, at which point he jumped ship. His car basically lacked the mid range punch of a similarly equipped vehicle on the alternative tune.
I appreciate that you are willing to address tune issues retrospectively, however, realistically a full comprehensive dyno tune shouldn't be beaten by a "mail order" tune from another country. It should by definition be "optimal". It kind of defeats the purpose of the whole dyno tuning spiel does it not?
How would a customer know that their tune isn't up to the task unless they benchmark it against the competition? Now, without reference to your company in particular but rather a blanket statement, I'd suggest that "less than optimal" tunes are leaving dyno workshops every single day of the week and the customer is none the wiser.
The owner drives out with a smirk on his face because HIS car is "dyno tuned".
So, I have a question.
Given that you have streetfighter workshops across Australia, are you guys supplying the strategies that you want these people to employ on the car or are the operators of those workshops in charge of what goes into the tuning?
To be more succinct: Is Streetfighter in charge of what leaves those workshops?
Hi Burkey

Yes we employ the base strategies on all Streetfighter tunes.
This ensures that every vehicle meets the criteria of the performance and reliability that we demand.
The end custom tune is then carefully monitored and adjusted accordingly out by the Streetfighter workshop on dyno to ensure we have a tune customized to that individual vehicle and application.
It then becoms the responsibilty of each individual Streetfighter workshop to ensure all criterias are met on a test drive and any adjustments to be made.
We have found that the tune varies slightly from vehicle to vehicle and state to state.
We then supply every customer a before and after dyno graph.
The owner then drives out with the piece of mind, that he knows his calibration has been , monitored customized and tested for his individual vehicle and requirements.
As you ask, this then makes Streetfighter " in charge of every tune" that leaves one of our dealer workshops.

To help educate forum members on how Streetfighter tunes and packages are offered;
As per the standard factory tune, Streetfighter develop our Driveline warranted packaged tunes with a large focus on lifetime reliability however offering the extra performance and economy .
Should a customer request a tune for maximum focus on power on dedicated fuel and application (eg Dyno, track, drag), we would tune accordingly.
Should a customer request a tune for maximum focus on economy on a dedicated fuel , we would tune accordingly.

Our main focus is not delivering a tune that "beats" another car or company on dyno.
We are only interested in delivering the correct optimal tune for each application.
In regards to our advertised tunes with warranty this means the combination of performance with the focus on lifetime reliability
We would always encourage a customer that is not entirely happy with the expected results to return to the Streetfighter workshop so we can best take care of any requirements or issues.We believe the relationship with customer and car then truly becomes a custom tuning offering.
 
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Hi Burkey

Yes we employ the base strategies on all Streetfighter tunes.
This ensures that every vehicle meets the criteria of the performance and reliability that we demand.
The end custom tune is then carefully monitored and adjusted accordingly out by the Streetfighter workshop on dyno to ensure we have a tune customized to that individual vehicle and application.
It then becoms the responsibilty of each individual Streetfighter workshop to ensure all criterias are met on a test drive and any adjustments to be made.
We have found that the tune varies slightly from vehicle to vehicle and state to state.
We then supply every customer a before and after dyno graph.
The owner then drives out with the piece of mind, that he knows his calibration has been , monitored customized and tested for his individual vehicle and requirements.
As you ask, this then makes Streetfighter " in charge of every tune" that leaves one of our dealer workshops.

To help educate forum members on how Streetfighter tunes and packages are offered;
As per the standard factory tune, Streetfighter develop our Driveline warranted packaged tunes with a large focus on lifetime reliability however offering the extra performance and economy .
Should a customer request a tune for maximum focus on power on dedicated fuel and application (eg Dyno, track, drag), we would tune accordingly.
Should a customer request a tune for maximum focus on economy on a dedicated fuel , we would tune accordingly.

Our main focus is not delivering a tune that "beats" another car or company on dyno.
We are only interested in delivering the correct optimal tune for each application.
In regards to our advertised tunes with warranty this means the combination of performance with the focus on lifetime reliability
We would always encourage a customer that is not entirely happy with the expected results to return to the Streetfighter workshop so we can best take care of any requirements or issues.We believe the relationship with customer and car then truly becomes a custom tuning offering.
Good response. Thanks David.
 

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Guys

Just a response from a user.

I have the Streetfighter full exhaust, tune, the Ford performance 2 plus option, as well as the handling kit. I also have the 3.73 rear gearing (more on that later).

I have not driven a stock Mustang as I got this all put on by CTB Performance in NZ. So I can't benchmark too much against stock but my wife has a 2015 R8 Commodore and I can bench mark against that.

My car with all the Streetfighter kit flies. The acceleration totally out does the Stock R8 and I couldn't be happier.

Now the 3.73 gear has caused a little problem. As well as helpping the car into the power range it has a down side that it has made the cabin doney and very loud.

This is new as the gear hasn't been long available and David has been helpful, as has CTB in organising modifications to reduce the drone and noise. Dynamat will be installed soon as I wait for Streetfighter development to get new mufflers to me.

Again, the tune flys and the power is great, against the R8 and certainly enough for me.
 

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Guys

Just a response from a user.

I have the Streetfighter full exhaust, tune, the Ford performance 2 plus option, as well as the handling kit. I also have the 3.73 rear gearing (more on that later).

I have not driven a stock Mustang as I got this all put on by CTB Performance in NZ. So I can't benchmark too much against stock but my wife has a 2015 R8 Commodore and I can bench mark against that.

My car with all the Streetfighter kit flies. The acceleration totally out does the Stock R8 and I couldn't be happier.

Now the 3.73 gear has caused a little problem. As well as helpping the car into the power range it has a down side that it has made the cabin doney and very loud.

This is new as the gear hasn't been long available and David has been helpful, as has CTB in organising modifications to reduce the drone and noise. Dynamat will be installed soon as I wait for Streetfighter development to get new mufflers to me.

Again, the tune flys and the power is great, against the R8 and certainly enough for me.
Mate, if anything the 3.73 gears should be making the car LESS droney. The drone zone is in the lower RPM range. Your gearing raises the revs.
Also, having heard the SF full system both in and out of the cabin, it's VERY mild in comparison to just about everything else in the market.
Have you tried disconnecting the sound tube?
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