CarandDriver: M2 vs GT350

firestarter2 said:

Thats a bit of a exaggeration. Just because the cars are more capable then the drivers doesn't make all cars equal.

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That's not what I said. Because cars of this caliber are so much more capable than 99.9% of their owners, you'll rarely find someone who can push the car to it's limit, even drivers in these video comparisons. These videos really come down to the ability of that person and their comfort in each car. For this video, that driver was able to drive the M2 faster than the GT350 at that track.

I guess what do people care about? Do they want to know how fast a car CAN go with a pro driving (in which case the GT350 would probably be seconds faster than the M2?) or do we care what an amateur is able to do in a given car when he is 5-10 seconds off a pro? In this example the amateur was able to drive the M2 a couple tenths faster than a GT350.

The Miata and Ferrari comment was in reference to a good driver in a Miata lapping a bad driver in a Ferrari, which you see often at track days.

AirBusPilot said:

It must have been a short, tight track for the M2 to not be killed by the GT350.

The drag race was strange, considering the trap speed of the 350 is nearly 9 mph higher. I'd expect bus lengths difference.

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What happens is the M2 kills the GT350 at the beginning because the GT350 isn't geared for launching from a standing start. Then once the GT350 gets into its power band it accelerates harder than the M2 and passes it. That's why the GT350 has a higher trap speed, but might not be far ahead or even win a drag race.

Minn19 said:

No kidding, people think they bitch too much about problems here. :lol:

I've heard of the pulling to the right issue and the software fix, but not the numerous lemoned cars or the claim that BMW is somehow limiting suspension warranties etc.

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Grab you some screen shots at the links below.

The suspension warranty BS sounds like its one specific dealership trying to avoid dealing with an issue. BMW NA has contradicted the dealership and said the warranty is still good. Dealers getting so tired of issue they started charging new owners for alignments under 2k which BMW NA has confirmed are covered under warranty for 2k. Sounds like owners are caught in between BMW and their dealers.

FogcitySF said:

First time I've heard of this as well and bimmerpost has a knack for blowing things out of proportion!

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Lol... Yea it does sound like rich people bitching till you drive a fugged up one. Freakn annoying as hell pull on a 60k+ car?

Minn19 said:

I'm still on the BMW forums daily and I've never heard of this reaching numerous lemoned cars or BMW denying a suspension warranty at 2k miles. :shrug:
Do you have any links for this?

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People that buy these to track are the ones noticing. Two in Texas I know of both track cars. Second one was bought with KW2 coilovers (factory option specifically for tracking).

Just start reading these threads, they are sooo sad, you can hear the frustration and hurt in their posts. Compare to Ford's handling of the 15-16 AC issues; FORD stepped up and has been replacing buried in dash Evap cores including several I have heard of just past warranty. Ford researched and stepped up and fixed the issue.:ford:

BMW had a dealership try and hide the problem by asymmetrically cambering the wheels! They tried this bullshit on a Track Day instructor! lol lol lol..

Lemon confirmed:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1165430

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1029834&highlight=steering

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1146394&page=2


One successful repair (maybe):
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21149864

his thread w engineer:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1356577

another possible fixed:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1356577&page=7

More:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1354107

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1345680

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1146394

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1273694

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1360527&highlight=Pull

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=962374#/topics/962374

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22082474#post22082474

Too many threads to try and keep track of the unique ones, but its a crap load of owners. You can search other forums if you like:
bimmerfest
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/
https://www.bmwcca.org/forum/index.php
ferrari chat etc..

To be clear, I love the new F8X and the M2 is killer and light. I am looking to pick one up to track because the GT350 price is sooo high. M4/3/2 interior materials, looks, interior, etc are hard to ignore. Please respect my high opinion of the M cars and yes, I think it is very realistic to cross shop GT350 w M4/3/2 for track day use. If you go to HPDE, you will see these in droves for a reason.

I am going to tell you this outright, the M2 is not that good of a car. BMW has lost their way.


I just recently got ride of my BMW 135is w/PPK2 N54. It is smaller & lighter than the M2 and pulls the same. I loved the car for it's size and nimble'ness, but I got ride of it because of the bmw nannies..

The same bs the M2 suffers from. Just more engineering and electronics to keep the chassis/suspension sorted. I could not consistently rely on my bmw, because instead of doing what I told it, it was trying to guess what I wanted..!

Owning it was an endless & hopeless game. (Germans have amused themselves to death.)



I am now waiting on a 2018 Mustang, because it's sophistication doesn't interfere with driving. And... believe it or not, a Ford Mustang is more purpose built than anything BMW M Division puts out.

Times have changed.

nastang87xx said:

I love the GT350 and I wouldn't ever trade it for an M2 but this is an absolutely ridiculous statement. It's a good and surprisingly engaging car.

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It might be, but it is one boxy, ugly car. Looks like most econ-box cars out there. Come on, guys buy them 'cause they think they're cool driving a bimmer. No style at all. And besides, it's a "kids" car.

GT 350 said:

It might be, but it is one boxy, ugly car. Looks like most econ-box cars out there. Come on, guys buy them 'cause they think they're cool driving a bimmer. No style at all. And besides, it's a "kids" car.

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I quite like it's looks. In person it has presence

firestarter2 said:

I quite like it's looks. In person it has presence

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Me too. Also quite a bit smaller which for me is a positive.

M2 is a great car. Just came from one. Have a 350R now. Will post comparison lap times and vids soon

Sliding around
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Passing some porsches
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Put down respectable lap times. 1:30:6 @ wsir / 1:57:2 @ Buttonwillow C13 / 1:49:6 @ Autoclub Speedway on RE71R tires
[ame]

GT 350 said:

It might be, but it is one boxy, ugly car. Looks like most econ-box cars out there. Come on, guys buy them 'cause they think they're cool driving a bimmer. No style at all. And besides, it's a "kids" car.

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Or maybe because they actually like different thing than you and like how it looks. Plus it is still 2-300 pounds lighter and smaller than a GT350. You can tune them cheap, thrown on some coil overs, wider tires and you have a pretty nice track car/DD for around 60k.

marks said:

1-0 to a naturally aspirated stick shift Mustang. A turbo auto may be 0.4 second quicker round a track but who cares, it's about how the car makes you feel.

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Just watch the guys facial expressions when he drives the GT350 vs the M2. He admits to being a BMW guy, thought he was going to like the BMW better (admits the engine 'notes' are "underwhelming". Then he actually drives the Shelby...all smiles.

Heading off to M School this weekend. It will be my first opportunity in the M2. I'm going to miss the M5 from the last time I went. My heart is set on a GT350R and I don't think this weekend is going to change my mind.

My GT350 was on track with an M2, NJMP Lightning and the M2 seemed a little faster around the track.

I didn't talk with the owner, but the car had a bilstien banner across the top of the windshield and was on pilot sport cup 2s. They are not the stock tire, correct?

This was in the instructor run group where I am not qualified to drive. A friend of mine was driving, he is very good and was not driving 10/10, maybe not even 9/10s as it isn't his car.

Obviously I have no idea how hard the M2 driver was driving.

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This guy ? He mentions 1:16.39. I think my best is 1:16.5? But I am pretty ham fisted but I have a lot more days on this track (though not much time over all). That being said id expect the GT350 be faster then a M2 on this course.

JT1 said:

My GT350 was on track with an M2, NJMP Lightning and the M2 seemed a little faster around the track.

I didn't talk with the owner, but the car had a bilstien banner across the top of the windshield and was on pilot sport cup 2s. They are not the stock tire, correct?

This was in the instructor run group where I am not qualified to drive. A friend of mine was driving, he is very good and was not driving 10/10, maybe not even 9/10s as it isn't his car.

Obviously I have no idea how hard the M2 driver was driving.

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fpa1974 said:

Me too. Also quite a bit smaller which for me is a positive.

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Agreed I like small cars. I see video off my car on the track when I pass people it looks like a land yacht