Mustang Ecoboost vs. Challenger R/t and Charger R/T

dystopic said:

Exceptions to every rule, my friend. If you turbo swap an EB and/or build those internals, it's no problem. But it takes pretty extreme modding or a serious hero run/badass driver to do it on the stock turbo.

I'm not exactly a Dodge fan. Not interested in Challengers (except the Hellcat -- but even then, too expensive). But when they aren't rattling apart, the 6.4L motors make for fast cars, man. They're tough for GT Mustangs to keep up with.

On the flip side of that coin, as I said (and from personal experience), the tuned EB makes mincemeat of the 5.7 Challenger R/Ts. It is absolutely hilarious to see, too. More than double the displacement and the poor 5.7 Hemi still can't hang. You'll get some hate-filled stares from R/T drivers all day. So for the original topic, I think that's pretty much closed.

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One last thing about the challengers rattling. While my RT did rattle in 85+ temperatures the last year of ownership, I have NEVER been in a mustang (pre 15') that didn't rattle! Mustangs are notorious for rattles.

That being said, my buddy does have 2 rattles in his 15 that he received in October. One is right around the driver side seat belt, and the other he says is on the left side of the dash, right near the light controls.

He does not frequent forums, so PM me if these issues are known and easily resolved.


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dystopic said:

Livernois does some pretty cool stuff. But when I had the EB, I was always afraid to use them. It seemed to me that they were running very close to the raggedy edge. They didn't blow up a motor like that other shop did, but, long-term... I'd have been afraid to run it that hard. I wound up going with Unleashed, since Torrie seemed to be (slightly) more conservative.

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Oh hell yea that cars on the ragged edge. I talk to the guy often that's actually driving in their 11 second video and he openly told me they'd have to rain it in when they started selling their tunes to the public. But it's an example of how far a EB can be pushed. Which is exactly what some of the EB crowd is going to do. No doubt a few motors will go up in smoke for the 4 banger. It'll only get worse down the road when they start strapping on the bigger turbo kits.

pietran30 said:

Just want to add a bit of personal experience. My last car was a 2010 Challenger RT. I currently drive a 2015 Challenger Scat Pack. Both were autos. Fastest time I ran in my RT was a 13.3 @ 104 stock. After a custom email tune, catback, and cai, I ran a 12.9 @ I believe 108. Btw my typical run when my RT was stock was high 13.4's to low 13.5's.

As far as ecoboosts being able to keep up with a srt or scst pack I'd say dream on. Attached is a time slip from 2 weeks ago at Atco raceway. The car in he left lane was a 2015 GT auto. (Not sure what gears.) My scst pack was in the right lane. Bone stock.

*edited because I posted the wrong time slip lmao*

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I'm not trying to take anything away from your time because a Scat Pack is still on my short list of cars, but it proves what I've been saying. An EB car going faster doesn't magically make other cars slow. I've seen too much insecurity on this forum.

[ame]

04SloSnake said:

I'm not trying to take anything away from your time because a Scat Pack is still on my short list of cars, but it proves what I've been saying. An EB car going faster doesn't magically make other cars slow. I've seen too much insecurity on this forum.

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Yeah, that's true enough. That car is pretty aggressively tuned, though. Running on e30 with a lot of love. I won't take away from what Adam is doing, and personally I'd be more inclined to go with MAP over Livernois -- Adam really seems to know his sh*t. But as our Mopar friend here demonstrated, it takes a pretty exceptional Ecoboost to hang with a SRT. Hell, it takes a modded GT to hang with a SRT.

Of course, what folks aren't considering here, is that the Challenger SRT costs a sh*tton more money than an EB. So it better damn well be fast.

thePill said:

What about Solo and Track?

The EB is very competitive for what it is. In my opinion, the new Ecoboost and the Miata are beginners paradise. It's also a good place to start if you have been away or don't frequent these events religiously.

As far as drag racing, I have always envied or feared boost of all kinds.

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I know what you mean. There was often a Buick Grand National that I would come up against back in my bracket racing days, I would always drive around him at about 120' but I knew the he'd be coming fast. The top end that car had was amazing. Very competitive car and driver. I never feared them, more like respected the hell out of them.
And that was a V6!

Livernois has a lot more experience and a much greater reputation specifically with ecoboost engines than pretty much all of the tuners on here. Also the unleashed tune is definitely more aggressive. It ups the boost by like 4psi whereas the Livernois tune stays within 1% of stock levels. Just wanted to clarify

Not true

dystopic said:

It's based on the year. I think 2011 is when the SRTs switched over to the 6.4, if I remember right. Anyway, those things are beasts. Rattle like nobody's business and feel like they'll fall apart, but they'll edge out a 5.0 if driven properly. The Ecoboost has no chance unless heavily modded.

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I have a 14' SRT, and the interior build quality is nice. No squeaks. The cars are not falling apart anywhere. The Ecoboost that is modded enough to beat my SRT will have issues....perhaps a "grenaded" motor at some point.

As for RWHP, the dyno figures vary, as motors vary....and different Dynos vary. The majority of 11-14' 392's get about 420-425 HP and 430Q to the wheels. The 15's get about 10 more HP because they switched to electric steering, which allows a little more power to reach the wheels.

Plenty of stock 392 time slips to view on Challenger Talk. 12.2 1/4 mile times are common for stock 15's (A8). These A8 auto trans cars about one to two tenths faster than the A5, which is about 2 tenths faster than an M6. Add custom tune and drag radials to any of these, and you are in the 11's.

After recently adding a Mopar CAI, 87 mm Throttle Body, Magnaflow Comp 3" pipes and a Diablo Intune- Custom tune, my car should run a low 12 (its an M6 and I have stock tires). I plan on adding drop in forged pistons, and a Magnusson blower (10-11 psi). We can mod too.

What he said...

thePill said:

What about Solo and Track?

The EB is very competitive for what it is. In my opinion, the new Ecoboost and the Miata are beginners paradise. It's also a good place to start if you have been away or don't frequent these events religiously.

As far as drag racing, I have always envied or feared boost of all kinds.

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"for what it is.....a beginners paradise."

I think that up to the point of 4 digit power, Compared to a GT/ SRT or whatever the Ecoboost will make more power cheaper.

My base EB was 25k, mind you I had to pay a 1500 fee for shipping to Germany so lets say 23.5 k the P1.5 kit is 2.9k and puts down 320/420 to the wheels compared to the GT's 381/359. add the turbo kit for 4 k and you are still below a Base GT. and well above the whp, though reliability has yet to be seen.

The cheapest base GT I've seen was 33k, (some one correct me if I'm wrong) lets conservatively say 40-41k with a SC kit and bolt ons which will see you at 600-700hp

A full build of my friends SR20 to 800 hp was 8k, alot of that was due to the 2.3 stroker kit which the eco does not need. so the ECO is still cheaper but not by much at this point

All that being said, his s15 was LAGGY as hell so I think that at a power level over 500-600 the GT makes more sense and would be more fun to drive.

Tm@c1965 said:

I have a 14' SRT, and the interior build quality is nice. No squeaks. The cars are not falling apart anywhere. The Ecoboost that is modded enough to beat my SRT will have issues....perhaps a "grenaded" motor at some point.

As for RWHP, the dyno figures vary, as motors vary....and different Dynos vary. The majority of 11-14' 392's get about 420-425 HP and 430Q to the wheels. The 15's get about 10 more HP because they switched to electric steering, which allows a little more power to reach the wheels.

Plenty of stock 392 time slips to view on Challenger Talk. 12.2 1/4 mile times are common for stock 15's (A8). These A8 auto trans cars about one to two tenths faster than the A5, which is about 2 tenths faster than an M6. Add custom tune and drag radials to any of these, and you are in the 11's.

After recently adding a Mopar CAI, 87 mm Throttle Body, Magnaflow Comp 3" pipes and a Diablo Intune- Custom tune, my car should run a low 12 (its an M6 and I have stock tires). I plan on adding drop in forged pistons, and a Magnusson blower (10-11 psi). We can mod too.

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Fixed it for ya before someone called you crazy.

Glenn G said:

I think that up to the point of 4 digit power, Compared to a GT/ SRT or whatever the Ecoboost will make more power cheaper.

My base EB was 25k, mind you I had to pay a 1500 fee for shipping to Germany so lets say 23.5 k the P1.5 kit is 2.9k and puts down 320/420 to the wheels compared to the GT's 381/359. add the turbo kit for 4 k and you are still below a Base GT. and well above the whp, though reliability has yet to be seen.

The cheapest base GT I've seen was 33k, (some one correct me if I'm wrong) lets conservatively say 40-41k with a SC kit and bolt ons which will see you at 600-700hp

A full build of my friends SR20 to 800 hp was 8k, alot of that was due to the 2.3 stroker kit which the eco does not need. so the ECO is still cheaper but not by much at this point

All that being said, his s15 was LAGGY as hell so I think that at a power level over 500-600 the GT makes more sense and would be more fun to drive.

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It's all ricer math. One indisputable fact. He who spends the most wins. Your Eco or any other 4 banger will rip it's sell to shreds trying to keep up with the 5.0 once the mods start adding up. I know I had a high boosted 2.4. The 5.0 has hit over 1000hp to the wheels once super charged on the stock bottom end. So figure in a built motor for the 4 banger at about 8-10 grand into your equation. I have 25 grand tied up in my 95GT. Its knocking at the 8 second door! But it's not as nice as either a EB or a 5.0 S550.

I keep seeing these posts

with "ricer math." Usually starts with my car was thousands of dollars less, and I only spent......

Good for them. You can make any car fast with $$$.

bluebeastsrt said:

It's all ricer math. One indisputable fact. He who spends the most wins. Your Eco will rip it's sell to shreds trying to keep up with the 5.0 once the mods start adding up. The 5.0 has hit over 1000hp to the wheels once super charged on the stock bottom end. So figure in a built motor for the 4 banger at about 8-10 grand into your equation. I have 25 grand tied up in my 95GT. Its knocking at the 8 second door! But it's not as nice as either a EB or a 5.0 S550.

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Ricer math cute!
I am just actually going by the Dyno charts put up by some companies on here.
Did you not get the part where I said Reliability would be suspect or the part where I said over 600 you are better off with the V8? Or the part where I said a built motor would be needed.

Don't worry your V8 throne is safe for now.

Edit: I agree with you on the nicer part though, if I wanted a really fast car I would have just put the 25k I spent on the mustang into my Supra, My Ecoboost will probably never move past the P1.5 stage.