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Mustang Ecoboost vs Camaro 2.0T

EcoVert

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Wasn't the 2.0T Camaro the car that General Motor Trend swapped the tires on to make it more competitive with the EB Mustang?

Yes it was and 93 octane in the camaro and 87 octane in the Mustang
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Hack

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Where has there been a comparison with a non PP Mustang? Could you imagine the up roar on this site if you saw a shootout between a base GT going up against a 1SS?
I don't get the question. The Mustang would win that comparison IMO. Maybe all the Chevy guys in the vs. section would be irritated, but not the Ford people.
 

02gtnh

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I don't get the question. The Mustang would win that comparison IMO. Maybe all the Chevy guys in the vs. section would be irritated, but not the Ford people.
You think a base GT would win against a 1ss in a comparison shootout.:lol:
 

bluebeastsrt

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You think a base GT would win against a 1ss in a comparison shootout.:lol:
I don't know about magazine racing. Which is what the Chevy guys are all about. But Your guys fast list completely sucks compared to ours!:thumbsup:
 

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bluebeastsrt

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Hack

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You think a base GT would win against a 1ss in a comparison shootout.:lol:
Easily. Only the performance of the SS is better - and it's only slightly better. The win in all other categories goes to the GT. The GT performance is plenty good enough for most people. If you want more performance the Coyote is a better engine for FI as well. Just the difference in MSRP is enough to convince most people to buy the GT, without the other issues the Camaro has.
 

Glenn G

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Notice how General Motor Trend won't compare Mustang with any of the dealer installed, warrantied, and 50 state legal performance packs to the Camaro? Almost all of them cost less than the tires they put on the Camaro but have never done on any other car.

Probably because a GT would smoke the SS and the EB, in it's factory detuned state already beat the V6 Camaro, would murder it and the 2.0 regardless of what tires were on it.
Gm would probably then pull most if not all of the 10 full page advertisements killing the profitabilty of the magazine
 

bluebeastsrt

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Notice how General Motor Trend won't compare Mustang with any of the dealer installed, warrantied, and 50 state legal performance packs to the Camaro? Almost all of them cost less than the tires they put on the Camaro but have never done on any other car.

Probably because a GT would smoke the SS and the EB, in it's factory detuned state already beat the V6 Camaro, would murder it and the 2.0 regardless of what tires were on it.
Gm would probably then pull most if not all of the 10 full page advertisements killing the profitabilty of the magazine
I'm more interested in how they'll find a way for the 18 Mustang to lose a comparo. It'll match the Camaro's performance and it's already the better all around car today. People aren't running out and buying the 4 seat Corvette for a reason.
 

PJR202

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I'm more interested in how they'll find a way for the 18 Mustang to lose a comparo. It'll match the Camaro's performance and it's already the better all around car today. People aren't running out and buying the 4 seat Corvette for a reason.
Is there any major magazine with a Frod bias?
 

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EcoVert

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I'm more interested in how they'll find a way for the 18 Mustang to lose a comparo. It'll match the Camaro's performance and it's already the better all around car today. People aren't running out and buying the 4 seat Corvette for a reason.

In 1982 when the Mustang GT beat the new camaro MT picked the camaro on the grounds that they liked the feel of seats and the radio knobs. With General motors monthly any reason will do.:doh::lol:
 

destoups

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Sorry, I was talking about the Camaro 2.0T, not the SS. I want the Ecoboost vs 2.0T comparison lol. But yeah the SS is a beast
Dredging this back up. Lizardrko, I've actually owned two of each:

2015 EB PP 6MT
2016 2.0T 6MT
2017 2.0T 6MT
2018 EB PP 10A

TL;DR -- Camaro feels larger but drives smaller.

We currently have the two newer ones in the garage. The cars are used primarily for SCCA autocross -- prep is limited to wheels/tires/bars/shocks/cat back exhaust. I don't trailer, so they get quite a few miles in transit to events. I haven't run the 2018 yet, but from my experience with the others:

Mustang pros: Torque curve nice and fat at autocross speeds. Turn-in was super-crisp. Car slalomed like a beast, and you didn't spend your mental energy feathering the throttle like competitors in GTs and SSs. Pretty much flat-footed it everywhere. Super strong brakes, and the car loved trail-braking.

Mustang cons: Short second gear (where most of the work is done) at 57mph; GT is slightly better at 60 (I think) and SS/M3 get to mid-60s. For practical purposes acceleration petered out about 55 mph. Shift to third is always a time-consuming choice. Even worse, in the EB you couldn't steer the car with the throttle in third the same way, and it became quite a handful. Downshifts to second had to be very deliberate.

Camaro pros: Prepped, the car is nearly 300 pounds lighter than the EB and feels like it. Second gear takes you to 60 to 64, depending on tire choice, and it pulls strong to redline, unlike the EB. The car is (mostly) much easier to drive quickly. Almost boring.

Camaro cons: Tricky to launch without bogging, and low end is weaker than the EB. When third gear is needed (rarely, but it happens) the shift is harder to pull off quickly. Ice mode easy to trigger unless you're careful about setting up a corner early, when the car is straight. Poor visibility makes the Camaro harder to place on course. Turn-in not as sharp.

In the hands of a great driver, for this specific type of racing, both cars are quite capable of winning. My codriver's much better than I am. In the EB, he was third at Nats in F Street, just a couple of tenths off the winning M3. I was midpack. In the Camaro (comparing raw times, as the four-bangers were moved to a different class for 2017) he had the times to win F Street. I was fifth.

I don't think either one of us would say the EB 6MT was faster for this kind of racing. (For 2018, the class includes both turbo pony cars, Civic Type R, Subaru WRX, some BRZs/ FRS, Cadillac ATS, Genesis turbo and older V-6s, MINI Cooper S, Integra Type R, Cobalt SS, older Golf Rs, R32s, plus a bunch of cars no one's tried out yet.) My codriver has a 2.0T of his own and prefers it to the Mustang.

The Camaro needs only a modest alignment and sticky tires. It's an amazingly competent autocross car right off the showroom floor. The Mustang took a year to figure out. It's not competitive without aftermarket shocks -- the nose lifts and the car pushes on corner exit. Magneride probably solves that (though I simply got another $700 set of Konis for the new one). Camber adjustment on the Camaro was easy: just loosen everything, lean hard and then tighten. Mustang requires a factory slotting procedure on the strut-to-knuckle hole and aftermarket service bolt (both cheap but a pain in the ass).

That said, I'm a Ford fanboy, and the 10A (I hope) solves the gearing issue and the paddles make up- and downshifts less consequential. We'll see.

Non-racing stuff, comparing the very basic models I bought (no-options Camaro, PP on Mustang):
  • Price -- Average OTD price on the Camaros was $6K LESS than the Mustangs.
  • Gas mileage -- Camaro better in town, Mustang on highway. I never reset the trip meters. Lifetime, '15 Mustang averaged about 27 mpg, in a combo of highway miles and literally hundreds of autocross runs. We averaged 34 mpg on one very long trip with the car loaded to the gills. '17 Camaro almost all highway and many fewer autocross runs, about 28. Camaro has tank that's 3 gallons larger; not uncommon to get 550+ miles out of highway tank. Camaro does consume less fuel when racing, allowing you to start with a few gallons less. Mustang -- factory tune of course -- really loved the higher-octane gas available outside the West Coast. I couldn't feel a difference in the Camaro.
  • Visibility -- neither is good but the Camaro can be scary. Also, you can't fit a race helmet through the side window.
  • Extras -- Camaro has power seats, auto climate control; MyLink infotainment easier to use and includes Car Play /Android Auto, unlike basic Sync. Camaro has struts for the hood. Plus, air conditioning for your knuckles!
  • Storage -- there is no place to put anything in the Camaro. No place. Even console storage isn't useful.
  • Trunk space / loading -- Mustang by a mile. You can easily stack two 285s in the Mustang trunk; the Camaro is too shallow and the opening so narrow it requires a steep entry angle. Leftover tires wind up going in the back seat. Again, Mustang allows you to stack two or put them flat, side by side, with the seat down. Camaro is too narrow for side by side and too shallow to stack two tires. (In Camaro we typically leave the seat up and put the tires in standing up at an angle. That forces the front seats forward a bit and prevents further reclining. OK for shorter distances but not great when it's 1,800 miles each way.)
  • Insurance -- Camaro is $200 a year cheaper.
  • Reliability -- In 24K miles (some of them hard) the Mustang threw two codes resulting in catalytic converter replacements under warranty. The rear axle nut backed off and sent the stability control into a panic. Easily fixed, and may have been my doing. Current Camaro in 10K miles has had the entire infotainment system replaced, and covers for both front seats replaced as well.
  • Quality -- Paint quality, interior materials and feel to the Mustang. Panel gaps noticeably better in the Camaro.
  • Sound -- Camaro.
  • Aftermarket -- the EB actually HAS an aftermarket. No off-the-shelf shocks / bars for 2.0T. Bars from SS won't fit.

I very much want the Mustang to be the faster of the two. To me the Camaro lacks soul, and it is much harder to live with when you're not racing.

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Billy1

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If you put a tune on the Mustang, does it bump it up a class? It's a completely different car with a tune.
 

Glenn G

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If you put a tune on the Mustang, does it bump it up a class? It's a completely different car with a tune.
Would you even need to disclose a tune? FRPP or Cobb stage 1 transform the car completely and I can't think of a way they could tell.
 

destoups

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Would you even need to disclose a tune? FRPP or Cobb stage 1 transform the car completely and I can't think of a way they could tell.
Yep, a tune would bump you into a higher class.

A cheater tune in my class would be impossible to prove without an expensive protest. I can recall only one teardown in a stock class since I've been doing this.

I imagine some people do cheat but frankly I don't drive well enough to take advantage of it :)
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