Camaro vs 18 Mustang H2H

millhouse said:

Ford knows this..and knows that those that track their cars make up only a small portion of overall sales...and a large relative percentage of warranty claims.

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This is one of the things that almost made me lean more towards a Camaro.
I have a friend who has a 2017 SS 1LE and it was a bit surprising to find out that Chevy would honor their warranty even with track use.
Only downside is that they specifically stated no mods but that's not too bad for a daily driver.

https://jalopnik.com/scared-to-take-your-car-out-for-a-track-day-gm-can-cha-1768765826

Back on topic, though. That's not surprising, the 1LE package is still a much better setup than the 2018 PP1.

It would be very interesting to just pop similar tire(and size) as the PP2/1LE on the PP1 and do a comparison. I think the tires alone will be at least 1s difference on a track.

The tires are an easy fix, it is the weight that will be the Achilles heel for the Mustang, now that it has a nice chassi the weight will be the next thing to fix. That will have a posititive impact on many different areas.

esco11 said:

This is one of the things that almost made me lean more towards a Camaro.
I have a friend who has a 2017 SS 1LE and it was a bit surprising to find out that Chevy would honor their warranty even with track use.
Only downside is that they specifically stated no mods but that's not too bad for a daily driver.

https://jalopnik.com/scared-to-take-your-car-out-for-a-track-day-gm-can-cha-1768765826

Back on topic, though. That's not surprising, the 1LE package is still a much better setup than the 2018 PP1.

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The camaro is a better track car, there is no doubt about it. Chevy honoring warranty on the track is spectacular.

With that said, Ford doesn't care....they don't make money selling track vehicles.

Realistically, if I wanted a daily driver that I could frequent a road course with...the 1LE SS would be at the top of my list.

Now if Ford starts losing mass quantities of buyers, they'll take notice. I don't think that will happen though. The only reason for them to up their game is pride.

PP2 isn't going to change anything. The Camaro chassis is just better than the Mustang currently. If it was already competing with the GT350/R then adding a few cosmetics/non-structural handling/horsepower upgrade isn't going to make SIGNIFICANT changes for the Mustang. It will definitely perform better than the 15-17 but it isn't going to close huge gaps.

wireeater said:

The Camaro chassis is just better than the Mustang currently.

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Is that why the GT350R with more than 100 fewer HP beat the ZL-1 in the recent Motor Trend comparison? The track times were nearly the same, even with a huge power difference. The reviewers said they liked the R much better. Do you think that the people at Motor Trend hate the "world class" Camaro chassis?

The chassis has nothing to do with the differences in track performance.

wireeater said:

PP2 isn't going to change anything. The Camaro chassis is just better than the Mustang currently. If it was already competing with the GT350/R then adding a few cosmetics/non-structural handling/horsepower upgrade isn't going to make SIGNIFICANT changes for the Mustang. It will definitely perform better than the 15-17 but it isn't going to close huge gaps.

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I'm not so sure its better per say, It is smaller but at the same time that's why the Camaro is a slow seller. Ford wants to sell cars, they have niche vehicles designed for their purposes.:cheers:

BailoutBowtie said:

I'm not so sure its better per say, It is smaller but at the same time that's why the Camaro is a slow seller. Ford wants to sell cars, they have niche vehicles designed for their purposes.:cheers:

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Exactly.

It's not like Ford does not know how to make a smaller chassis. They purposely decided that a larger chassis with more room was a better idea.

LoL @ the comments about the mustang being ugly on that link. I haven't met a single person who thinks the SS or SS 1LE are attractive vehicles. Everyone I know only likes them for their performance.

bootlegger said:

LoL @ the comments about the mustang being ugly on that link. I haven't met a single person who thinks the SS or SS 1LE are attractive vehicles. Everyone I know only likes them for their performance.

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Looks are all personal preference, I actually like the looks of the 6th Gen Camaro as much as the S550. The only thing that really bugged me was visibility. Having a bit more room was a nice extra though.

wireeater said:

PP2 isn't going to change anything. The Camaro chassis is just better than the Mustang currently. If it was already competing with the GT350/R then adding a few cosmetics/non-structural handling/horsepower upgrade isn't going to make SIGNIFICANT changes for the Mustang. It will definitely perform better than the 15-17 but it isn't going to close huge gaps.

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The tires alone will be an enormous change for the PP2 cars.

The pp1 will be faster than a pp2 more than likely, due to the pp2 only coming in manual and the pp1 with the 10 speed auto should be a drivers race between the camaro.

seth21w said:

The pp1 will be faster than a pp2 more than likely, due to the pp2 only coming in manual and the pp1 with the 10 speed auto should be a drivers race between the camaro.

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Ah, no. Even Ford said the PP2 was 2 seconds faster around Grattan than the PP1. And considering Grattan is a relatively small race track, that is a big deal.
For another perspective, Randy Pobst lapped the ZL1 manual faster than the 10 speed auto at Willow Springs.

Austinj427 said:

The tires alone will be an enormous change for the PP2 cars.

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This is true. My 16 PP with minor mods and sport cup 2's can hold its own against GT350's and 1LE's on track. The PP2 should match or out perfrom a 1LE

mvfjet said:

1LE vs PP1 we know who wins. It'd have to be a base SS for it to be a fair comparison. Come on Motortrend?

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A base SS vs base GT would be fair.

The PP is currently the best available GT vs the best SS, 1LE. It's not Motor Trends fault it isn't competitive. Or that the PP2 won't be out anytime soon.

Yes it is motor trends fault. They know damn well the pp1 and 1le are not competitors. PP1 competes with the SS, not the 1le. They easily could have said we will do an ss vs the gt or just could have waited for the PP2. Don't act like they had 0 control over the test. Testing the PP1 to the 1le is dumb. We all know the 1le will win. The part that sucks is that it is highly unlikely they will then in 6 months time test a mustang and Camaro again when the PP2 rolls out. So we will likely never see that head to head.

Personally I just want a more fair dual. If the 1le kicks the PP2's ass then so be it, but at least it has a chance with the cheater tires lol.