Do you have audio questions?

Hey SQ_550,
I could use some advice. I am thinking about installing a simple system to my car. I have a couple of questions, Have you worked with dsp's and what type of signal lo/hi from the stereo before the amp? I am planning of running my Kicker 4 ch and mono amp with a Kicker dsp called the First Row. I was not sure how to run my 4ch with 9 speakers. I was thinking of bridging the first two channels run a set of components and 3.5's for up front and to hook up the rear two 6.5's straight up. I was not going to do anything with the center and just leave as is.

SQ_S550 said:

What type of music do you normally listen to?

I'm going to guess you are running the CS tweeters. These are a titanium dome tweeter. Titanium and aluminum tweeters will normally have a much harsher sound compared to a Silk or other fabric dome tweeter. The metal dome tweeters are also more efficient then their silk counterparts, but they also give off a lot of that tisss tisss tisss cymbal sounds.

A fabric tweeter such as silk or paper is normally found in the upper end tweeters.

A tweeter such as

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/auto-tweeters/tianle-amt40-4-3/4-amt-car-tweeter-pair/

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ess-oc25sc65-04-1-textile-dome-tweeter-4-ohm/

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/vifa-xt25sc90-04-ring-radiator-tweeter/

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...erless-ox20sc00-04-19mm-textile-dome-tweeter/

These are all very smooth tweeters, with the ring radiators sounding the best. This is the design that many top tier manufactures use in their upper end products.

Now I am not saying that you can not get a metal dome tweeter to sound great because you can, you just need access to an EQ to make adjustments.

Click to expand...

This is the tweeter I bought

https://www.amazon.com/Kicker-41KST...829926&sr=8-1&keywords=kicker+1+inch+tweeters

I can turn the treble down all the way on the radio settings and the tweeter is still overbearing. I listen to a wide variety of music but probably rock the most. I do have a set of these http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/p1t-s

that I stole the crossovers out of so if this tweeter is a little softer I could always try to get these to fit.

Thanks for the help on this

Silver550 said:

Hey SQ_550,
I could use some advice. I am thinking about installing a simple system to my car. I have a couple of questions, Have you worked with dsp's and what type of signal lo/hi from the stereo before the amp? I am planning of running my Kicker 4 ch and mono amp with a Kicker dsp called the First Row. I was not sure how to run my 4ch with 9 speakers. I was thinking of bridging the first two channels run a set of components and 3.5's for up front and to hook up the rear two 6.5's straight up. I was not going to do anything with the center and just leave as is.

Click to expand...

Not SQ_550, but I'll throw in my 2 cents...
The signal before the amp is low (rca) level.
To use only your existing two amps, you would want to run a passive 3 way component set up front off two channels of your 4ch amp and run the back speakers off the remaining two channels. See this link for examples of 3 way systems; https://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_f58-292_i29_6-5-component-speakers-3-way-component-speakers.html

The front stage would then apply alignment to the front 6 speakers as a group, the rear speakers as a group and you would have no time alignment on the subs since you want their signal to reach you first.

Hope this helps somewhat...

shelbywannabe said:

This is the tweeter I bought

https://www.amazon.com/Kicker-41KST...829926&sr=8-1&keywords=kicker+1+inch+tweeters

I can turn the treble down all the way on the radio settings and the tweeter is still overbearing. I listen to a wide variety of music but probably rock the most. I do have a set of these http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/p1t-s

that I stole the crossovers out of so if this tweeter is a little softer I could always try to get these to fit.

Thanks for the help on this

Click to expand...

Can you describe how you added the Kicker tweeters to your system? Did you use the crossover with the factory tweeter wiring? You say with the treble turned down they are still overbearing... does that mean too bright (harsh) or too loud?

mumbles said:

Not SQ_550, but I'll throw in my 2 cents...
The signal before the amp is low (rca) level.
To use only your existing two amps, you would want to run a passive 3 way component set up front off two channels of your 4ch amp and run the back speakers off the remaining two channels. See this link for examples of 3 way systems; https://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_f58-292_i29_6-5-component-speakers-3-way-component-speakers.html

The front stage would then apply alignment to the front 6 speakers as a group, the rear speakers as a group and you would have no time alignment on the subs since you want their signal to reach you first.

Hope this helps somewhat...

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot mumbles,
I am still planning out my system. I was not aware of 3 way component systems, thanks. I found a company called CTD that has multiple 3 way components. I noticed that they also have silk dome tweeters like the more expensive JL's. I still need to figure out what type of sub/subs to get. My mono Kicker amp is rated at 1600 rms. I was thinking of a single 12 Alpine type R wired to 4ohms that way it will get roughly 800 rms with a box similar to the zenclosure with the sub and port facing into the cab.

Silver550 said:

Thanks a lot mumbles,
I am still planning out my system. I was not aware of 3 way component systems, thanks. I found a company called CTD that has multiple 3 way components. I noticed that they also have silk dome tweeters like the more expensive JL's. I still need to figure out what type of sub/subs to get. My mono Kicker amp is rated at 1600 rms. I was thinking of a single 12 Alpine type R wired to 4ohms that way it will get roughly 800 rms with a box similar to the zenclosure with the sub and port facing into the cab.

Click to expand...

I myself am a big fan of CDT, very overlooked company IMO!

Also my opinion if you can fit 2 woofers do it! if you are doing a prefab enclosure i would also recommend a sealed enclosure.

So why 2 woofers? it is always easier to dial back sub performance, yet 1 sub can only achieve so much. My last 3 systems that I have competed with all contained single driver sub stages, so it is possible to obtain good sound. the impact is where you will notice the difference. iIt is so much easier to produce the impact of a kick drum with 2 drivers vs 1 as there is twice the cone area.

Why a sealed enclosure over ported? if you are doing a custom box, and the installer has a box building program DO PORTED! The installer will be-able to get the best tuning frequency for that woofer, this is not usually what is listed in the manual. if you just want to be loud by all means tune a port to 35-45hz. he benefits of a ported enclosure is that they will extend much lower then sealed, they are also much more efficient, meaning yes they will play louder. the problem with pre fab ported enclosures is that they are generally tuned to one frequency, you have no choice. this can make a great woofer sound like crap.

Silver550 said:

Thanks a lot mumbles,
I am still planning out my system. I was not aware of 3 way component systems, thanks. I found a company called CTD that has multiple 3 way components. I noticed that they also have silk dome tweeters like the more expensive JL's. I still need to figure out what type of sub/subs to get. My mono Kicker amp is rated at 1600 rms. I was thinking of a single 12 Alpine type R wired to 4ohms that way it will get roughly 800 rms with a box similar to the zenclosure with the sub and port facing into the cab.

Click to expand...

SQ_S550 said:

I myself am a big fan of CDT, very overlooked company IMO!

Also my opinion if you can fit 2 woofers do it! if you are doing a prefab enclosure i would also recommend a sealed enclosure.

So why 2 woofers? it is always easier to dial back sub performance, yet 1 sub can only achieve so much. My last 3 systems that I have competed with all contained single driver sub stages, so it is possible to obtain good sound. the impact is where you will notice the difference. iIt is so much easier to produce the impact of a kick drum with 2 drivers vs 1 as there is twice the cone area.

Why a sealed enclosure over ported? if you are doing a custom box, and the installer has a box building program DO PORTED! The installer will be-able to get the best tuning frequency for that woofer, this is not usually what is listed in the manual. if you just want to be loud by all means tune a port to 35-45hz. he benefits of a ported enclosure is that they will extend much lower then sealed, they are also much more efficient, meaning yes they will play louder. the problem with pre fab ported enclosures is that they are generally tuned to one frequency, you have no choice. this can make a great woofer sound like crap.

Click to expand...

I agree with SQ_550 regarding CDT speakers, very nice sounding and very underrated.

I also agree with the comments about ported vs sealed enclosures. Unless you are having a box custom made for a specific set of speakers by someone who knows what they are doing, I would tend to steer clear of ported enclosures, there is just too much that can go wrong with a generic ported enclosure. If you are considering something like a zenclosure box, verify what the internal volume is for the enclosure, and then pick a speaker designed for that volume... not saying the Alpines are not good speakers, just verify their requirements. One trick to "increase" the volume of an enclosure is to add batting material to the inside... it makes the box seem larger than it really is, but is obviously not a replacement for a properly designed enclosure.

Re: the above statement on box volume, also be aware that the Zenclosure guys can adapt their box to some extent to match your sub's optimal volume if you contact them. Also true for the guys at AudioDesignsCG.com.

Does anyone have a block schematic for wiring in speakers, crossovers, and amp on a base model?

It's embarrassing to ask since I'm an electrician but audio has never been a thing for me. I would think it goes: factory wiring to amp, amp to crossovers, crossovers to speakers. Then I'm not sure how the tweeters fit into the equation, or if the crossovers have an output to the tweeters as well.

Much thanks in advance!

Evo_Rob said:

Does anyone have a block schematic for wiring in speakers, crossovers, and amp on a base model?

It's embarrassing to ask since I'm an electrician but audio has never been a thing for me. I would think it goes: factory wiring to amp, amp to crossovers, crossovers to speakers. Then I'm not sure how the tweeters fit into the equation, or if the crossovers have an output to the tweeters as well.

Much thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

Is this what you are looking for ?

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25501

Some other stuff that needs discussing here:
1. Imaging and staging aka "Why spending money on rear speakers or installing new mid-range drivers in the factory location is a bad idea"

2. Proper use of damping and noise cancelling materials or "Why Dynamating a whole car doesn't do what you think it does"

3. Aftermarket HU's versus Sync 3 premium swaps or "Why that AVIC isnt really that much better than the factory Clarion stuff"

My background, similar to SQ's
Youngest MECP certified First Class installer in 1995 (age 17)
Local competitor and installation specialist in Cincinnati 1995-1999
Started building sub boxes at age 15 using early Wayne Harris software
Graduate of GM ASEP at Sinclair College
Specialized in Electrical and drivability at a GM dealer for 3 years
Moved into engineering at GM after more school and was responsible for creating custom harnesses for test transmissions
Now working at Honda R&D doing "stuff"
Besides racing engines car audio is my second passion.

HextallS550 said:

Some other stuff that needs discussing here:
1. Imaging and staging aka "Why spending money on rear speakers or installing new mid-range drivers in the factory location is a bad idea"

2. Proper use of damping and noise cancelling materials or "Why Dynamating a whole car doesn't do what you think it does"

3. Aftermarket HU's versus Sync 3 premium swaps or "Why that AVIC isnt really that much better than the factory Clarion stuff"

My background, similar to SQ's
Youngest MECP certified First Class installer in 1995 (age 17)
Local competitor and installation specialist in Cincinnati 1995-1999
Started building sub boxes at age 15 using early Wayne Harris software
Graduate of GM ASEP at Sinclair College
Specialized in Electrical and drivability at a GM dealer for 3 years
Moved into engineering at GM after more school and was responsible for creating custom harnesses for test transmissions
Now working at Honda R&D doing "stuff"
Besides racing engines car audio is my second passion.

Click to expand...

When you get time, I'd like to pick up our conversation we were having on the phone. You got busy, then I got busy.


Bob

shelbywannabe said:

Is this what you are looking for ?

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25501

Click to expand...

More a block diagram, than wire schematic. I can figure out the wiring once I get into it. I'm just curious the order of flow. You know what I mean?

Yes. More like an as built diagram
Not sure you will find one unless someone on here took the time to draw one out.

Evo_Rob said:

Does anyone have a block schematic for wiring in speakers, crossovers, and amp on a base model?

It's embarrassing to ask since I'm an electrician but audio has never been a thing for me. I would think it goes: factory wiring to amp, amp to crossovers, crossovers to speakers. Then I'm not sure how the tweeters fit into the equation, or if the crossovers have an output to the tweeters as well.

Much thanks in advance!

Click to expand...

On a base car:
ACM > Front Door Speakers > Tweeters (in-line capacitor)
ACM > Rear Speakers

No external amp or DSP