valentinoamoro
Well-Known Member
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- #1
Many months ago I posted about why I was switching to a Mustang after years of driving a BMW M6 (5L V10, 500HP, 3950 pounds). Prior to that I owned a highly modded Audi TT and have other European cars (non performance). Summary is here.
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8439
This is my first American car (I had posters of classic Stangs and early Vipers right next to the Ferrari F40 back as a young kid!) and I always wanted one, but held back every time I opened the door and looked at the interior or took a turn in one of those cars.
Well, after a LOOONG wait my baby ('Pacman') arrived last week. I've not had a chance to put too many miles on (only 60 - the car came with 4!) but would like to share initial impressions on quality, interior, city driving, dealership experience etc (Vs my M6)! Also, a few notes on why I didnt get a C7 Vette, STI or M3. This community has been super-helpful to me (shout-out to guys like Zombie etc) and sharing back is the least I can do.
Dealership Experience 3.5/5- Mixed. The BMW and Audi dealers I've dealt with have incredible service. The first Ford dealer I went to back in June to place my order was incredibly unethical and frustrating. The second one amazing - polite, courteous, no pressure sales and secured a ton of discounts for me - even the finance guy didn't try to push the usual crap. The dealerships themselves are not terribly fancy, they dont serve coffee or drinks etc - but they are good enough and if it helps keep the price down (which in my case it did), I am all for it.
Price/Cost of Ownership 5/5- I realize pricing is subjective, but coming from Teutonic iron I will say that the Mustang comes off as an incredible deal without any noticeable compromises (yes, the carpet is not as thick but thats hardly noticeable). My M6 had a $40K+ 5.0L engine (massive costs when it blows a rod bearing, which many are known to do), the GT's is 8K (ish)? The M6's engine was an engineering marvel when launched so its not a fair comparison, but switching from that to this I don't feel I'm giving anything up in seat of the pants power in daily driving - more on this below. Moreover, modding the M6 (And E92 M3) is really expensive, the aftermarket is smaller and I dont feel they respond as well to tunes/exhaust etc (they come pretty maxed out from the factory). Oil changes in the M6 where ~$250 (required 10W60) and parts are horrendously pricey. The STI is similarly priced (to the GT) and I feel is a whole different (read lower) class of car.
Interior 4.5/5 - I'm stepping into the Stang from cars with incredible interiors. The Audi TT had what was a class leading interior (at least it did when it was launched) and my M6 had a full leather wrapped glorious affair. My wife thinks (and I agree) that the Mustang has a fun exciting interior that's incredibly nice (not 'for the price', its nice period). Interior panels fit flush, soft touch materials abound, the PP metal dash looks amazing, the stitching on the dash (not sure if its simulated or real) gives it a very high class look. The metal pieces of the shifter/steering feel cold to the touch (real metal), the screen is high resolution and very responsive with a high-rez instant on backup camera - the interface pairs easily with my phone and voice recognition is accurate. The leather is incredibly soft (as soft as the leather on my BMW). I sat in a Premium Mustang and strongly recommend the very modestly priced Premium Accent Group for those who care - it finishes the interior beautifully. The premium car that didn't have it had a harder plasticky feeling leather and the dash just didnt look as nice (something was missing). My wife and I appreciated the 60's era aeronautic theme with the gauges and dash (some people would consider it corny but I think the Mustang has the heritage to back it up ) and we LOVED the mycolor. I've set the color to purple (and yellow) and love the way the interior looks like a lounge/club!!! Yes, there are signs of cost cutting - example, the lower part of the door is hard plastics but honestly, if that keeps Mustang accessible to the working man and woman I have no problem with it, one really has to look for stuff like that. Also, the dome light fixture is a bit old looking but that is a minor nit pick. I ordered an LED interior package and hope to dress it up further. Side note - the similarly priced STI's interior is so bad its not even funny and the C7, while having a significantly improved interior (over prior generations) still doesn't have that 'themed classy' look that the GT I'm driving has - there isnt enough metal/a little too much plastics (and it smells of glue). Was the M6 interior higher quality - yes (as it had full leather), however, the plastic paint on switches started to peel, the seats wore and creased really quickly and I had minor peeling on my steering wheel. I am interested in seeing how the GT holds up. For the record the M4 has a more fancy interior (while BMW's driving sensations have been dumbed down their interiors have gotten better). I also prefer the Mustang's ability to fit my buddies for a short drive to the bar (and baby seats) - something (bandwidth) the Vette lacks relegating it to the status of a toy. The Shaker system is ok, good enough for me right now and equivalent to a base system in a BMW. Audiophiles will def want to upgrade - there is a ton of great aftermarket options out there and I will look into it in the future unless I just decide the upgraded exhaust I will install makes the effort pointless.
Exterior Looks 5/5 - Here I think Ford nailed it. NAILED IT. This exterior is verging on exotic looking and has a lovely blend of Euro and Trans-Am/American Muscle styling. All my friends called it 'bootylicious', I loved the LED's, the TY paint is intense, deep and bold and contrasts well with the black trim. The double bubble roof, flared rear haunches, long hood etc could not be cheap to tool and the car has a low mean look. I feel the S197 was handsome but the slab sided look now seems tall and odd. I LOVE how Ford kept the front end simple and aggressive without resorting to the horrible strakes/scoops etc that BMW is doing with this years over styled M4/M3. The rear view also looks more exotic (than the M4) with the 3 dimensional LED's and lovely rear backup light and diffuser. One surprising thing is folks stopping me on the road are asking what car it is and are surprised when I mention a Mustang! I realized Ford doesn't mention Mustang anywhere on the exterior - for me this comes as a surprise as I see the heritage clues everywhere, but I guess for people who dont follow the car scene this is not obvious. Long story short the car has a more muscular clean design than the M3/M4. The STI's just looks ugly. I do like the C7's look though as well, particularly in red. I'm going to duck when I say this but I love the black PP wheels (has lovely depth and detail that cant be seen in photos) and plan on keeping them. I will have a separate 305 f/r section of forged wheels with R compounds for track/autox.
Very Limited Driving Impressions 5/5 - TORQUE, TORQUE, TORQUE. This engine feels like a big block and I'm sure it only gets better once its broken in. It positively makes the 5L V10 of my M6 seems weak in comparison driving around town. Dont get me wrong, winding out that BMW engine was an experience by itself, however, daily driving it just didn't feel that fast (lower torque figures and more weight). I feel it feels significantly faster than the E92 M3 (I've had a lot of experience with that car) with its 290ish pounds feet of torque, which has a smaller version of the engine in the M6 (basically the 4L is an M6's 5LV10 with two cylinders lopped off). I've always enjoyed the strong reliable 'mod friendly' motor that the Coyote is - the power is there down low, mid range and up in the band, basically everywhere. I have NOT revved the car too much or pushed it hard as its too green and I haven't had a chance. The STI (and 335) have decent torque around 3000 rpm but run out of steam quickly - not the Coyote. The throttle also feel very responsive, a quality I appreciate with NA engines. Brakes are first class - not as grabby as my M6 brakes (which I think are some of the strongest brakes I've ever experienced) and I hope to see how they hold up when I push the car. I have not driven the car enough to comment on handling except the steering feels great, the steering speed is very good, feedback is good (not as good as Miata, better than M4 and C7), and I like the customizable effort. The biggest thing I noticed about the driving experience is the suspension tune on rough roads. Prior American cars I've driven that are performance oriented crash on bumps/unevenness and are overly stiff. This car seems to have somehow acquired the BMW art of having a sporty stiff suspension that has that suppleness in the last inch of travel - remarkable and says something about the IRS and the dampers/springs. The car is not thrown off by bad roads - something my M6 at times would and the last S197 was plagued by.
Exterior Fit and Finish 2.5/5- My biggest beef is here. I suspect the flat rock assembly plant has old robots that need upgrading as they cannot deliver German or Japanese level of tolerances in panels. Panel gaps are uneven, the hood is mildly unaligned and the gas cap does not sit flush against the body. I think the hood can be fixed - but there are still varying gaps. 99% of people wont notice it (my wife didn't) but I'm a perfectionist and it bothered me a bit. Forget BMW, even a Camry has far far better panel fitting (or Ford's European Focus). It's not new tooling either, the last S197 even in later years had terribly aligned panels. Toyota's TPS manufacturing would never permit this kind of sloppiness. OTOH, the paint is leagues better than the paint on my BMW and infinitely better than the think easily marred paint on Honda's and Acura's. The BMW paint was thick and strong but had horrible orange peel - the TY paint is quite smooth and has no blobs or uneven spots (perhaps its because its a premium paint). No swirls etc either from the factory (I didnt let the dealer touch it). Will see how the paint holds up.
Sound 2.5/5 - A huge let down. It sounds sweet inside the cabin (quite nice actually as soon as you start driving) but the sense of theater and drama that the S197 had when you fired it up is gone. Its WAY TOO MUTED, esp at startup. Perhaps this is to cater to a broader group of people, but if you're getting a Performance Pack you should get more sound. This is going to be a mod I will make soon - I feel Ford is trying to up-sell folks into the FRPP Borla systems. I know the Coyote can sound incredible so I'm a bit bummed Ford gagged the pony from the factory.
Overall - These kinds of cars are emotional purchases and are supposed to be fun - in fact, Mustang to me has always been about fast fun, a car that urges you to stop taking things too seriously and just have a good time, I'll even say a little sassy and a tad irreverent. I think in that regard, Ford has nailed it (other than the sound). Walking up to it gives me a huge grin, the pony projection on the ground makes all my friends smile, the view from the seat with the huge yellow hood is incredible, mycolor gives it a 'fun feel'. I'll post more impressions in a thousand miles or so but so far, I think if you're on the fence - get it. I've got a ton of experience with cars like the Camaro (in SS and 1LE form) and while hot shoes like Randy and all will appreciate GM's incredible chassis tuning, for most folks out there, I do believe the Mustang is a far superior choice (and thats before getting into the aftermarket) - more comfortable, better driving position, faster revving engine (I find the LS3 a bit lazy), and ergonomics and just a tighter better put together nicer looking and feeling package. Also, if you are a straight line guy no doubt the new M4 is the way to go - that engine is underrated and seriously strong but I feel BMW is missing some of the nuanced driving magic they had in their E46, E36, V10 M5/M6, 2003 M coupe etc. :cheers:
Pardon the cell phone photos, haven't had time to use my DSLR. Also, the TY doesn't photograph very accurately and even in real life it changes tone/shade. Today for example it looked like a matte finish with the gray skies and rain. Def a shot of color in misty beautiful Seattle. Photo with our 'new to us' 1929 Tudor in the background - yes, a Jag E type or vintage car would look more appropriate
.
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8439
This is my first American car (I had posters of classic Stangs and early Vipers right next to the Ferrari F40 back as a young kid!) and I always wanted one, but held back every time I opened the door and looked at the interior or took a turn in one of those cars.
Well, after a LOOONG wait my baby ('Pacman') arrived last week. I've not had a chance to put too many miles on (only 60 - the car came with 4!) but would like to share initial impressions on quality, interior, city driving, dealership experience etc (Vs my M6)! Also, a few notes on why I didnt get a C7 Vette, STI or M3. This community has been super-helpful to me (shout-out to guys like Zombie etc) and sharing back is the least I can do.
Dealership Experience 3.5/5- Mixed. The BMW and Audi dealers I've dealt with have incredible service. The first Ford dealer I went to back in June to place my order was incredibly unethical and frustrating. The second one amazing - polite, courteous, no pressure sales and secured a ton of discounts for me - even the finance guy didn't try to push the usual crap. The dealerships themselves are not terribly fancy, they dont serve coffee or drinks etc - but they are good enough and if it helps keep the price down (which in my case it did), I am all for it.
Price/Cost of Ownership 5/5- I realize pricing is subjective, but coming from Teutonic iron I will say that the Mustang comes off as an incredible deal without any noticeable compromises (yes, the carpet is not as thick but thats hardly noticeable). My M6 had a $40K+ 5.0L engine (massive costs when it blows a rod bearing, which many are known to do), the GT's is 8K (ish)? The M6's engine was an engineering marvel when launched so its not a fair comparison, but switching from that to this I don't feel I'm giving anything up in seat of the pants power in daily driving - more on this below. Moreover, modding the M6 (And E92 M3) is really expensive, the aftermarket is smaller and I dont feel they respond as well to tunes/exhaust etc (they come pretty maxed out from the factory). Oil changes in the M6 where ~$250 (required 10W60) and parts are horrendously pricey. The STI is similarly priced (to the GT) and I feel is a whole different (read lower) class of car.
Interior 4.5/5 - I'm stepping into the Stang from cars with incredible interiors. The Audi TT had what was a class leading interior (at least it did when it was launched) and my M6 had a full leather wrapped glorious affair. My wife thinks (and I agree) that the Mustang has a fun exciting interior that's incredibly nice (not 'for the price', its nice period). Interior panels fit flush, soft touch materials abound, the PP metal dash looks amazing, the stitching on the dash (not sure if its simulated or real) gives it a very high class look. The metal pieces of the shifter/steering feel cold to the touch (real metal), the screen is high resolution and very responsive with a high-rez instant on backup camera - the interface pairs easily with my phone and voice recognition is accurate. The leather is incredibly soft (as soft as the leather on my BMW). I sat in a Premium Mustang and strongly recommend the very modestly priced Premium Accent Group for those who care - it finishes the interior beautifully. The premium car that didn't have it had a harder plasticky feeling leather and the dash just didnt look as nice (something was missing). My wife and I appreciated the 60's era aeronautic theme with the gauges and dash (some people would consider it corny but I think the Mustang has the heritage to back it up ) and we LOVED the mycolor. I've set the color to purple (and yellow) and love the way the interior looks like a lounge/club!!! Yes, there are signs of cost cutting - example, the lower part of the door is hard plastics but honestly, if that keeps Mustang accessible to the working man and woman I have no problem with it, one really has to look for stuff like that. Also, the dome light fixture is a bit old looking but that is a minor nit pick. I ordered an LED interior package and hope to dress it up further. Side note - the similarly priced STI's interior is so bad its not even funny and the C7, while having a significantly improved interior (over prior generations) still doesn't have that 'themed classy' look that the GT I'm driving has - there isnt enough metal/a little too much plastics (and it smells of glue). Was the M6 interior higher quality - yes (as it had full leather), however, the plastic paint on switches started to peel, the seats wore and creased really quickly and I had minor peeling on my steering wheel. I am interested in seeing how the GT holds up. For the record the M4 has a more fancy interior (while BMW's driving sensations have been dumbed down their interiors have gotten better). I also prefer the Mustang's ability to fit my buddies for a short drive to the bar (and baby seats) - something (bandwidth) the Vette lacks relegating it to the status of a toy. The Shaker system is ok, good enough for me right now and equivalent to a base system in a BMW. Audiophiles will def want to upgrade - there is a ton of great aftermarket options out there and I will look into it in the future unless I just decide the upgraded exhaust I will install makes the effort pointless.
Exterior Looks 5/5 - Here I think Ford nailed it. NAILED IT. This exterior is verging on exotic looking and has a lovely blend of Euro and Trans-Am/American Muscle styling. All my friends called it 'bootylicious', I loved the LED's, the TY paint is intense, deep and bold and contrasts well with the black trim. The double bubble roof, flared rear haunches, long hood etc could not be cheap to tool and the car has a low mean look. I feel the S197 was handsome but the slab sided look now seems tall and odd. I LOVE how Ford kept the front end simple and aggressive without resorting to the horrible strakes/scoops etc that BMW is doing with this years over styled M4/M3. The rear view also looks more exotic (than the M4) with the 3 dimensional LED's and lovely rear backup light and diffuser. One surprising thing is folks stopping me on the road are asking what car it is and are surprised when I mention a Mustang! I realized Ford doesn't mention Mustang anywhere on the exterior - for me this comes as a surprise as I see the heritage clues everywhere, but I guess for people who dont follow the car scene this is not obvious. Long story short the car has a more muscular clean design than the M3/M4. The STI's just looks ugly. I do like the C7's look though as well, particularly in red. I'm going to duck when I say this but I love the black PP wheels (has lovely depth and detail that cant be seen in photos) and plan on keeping them. I will have a separate 305 f/r section of forged wheels with R compounds for track/autox.
Very Limited Driving Impressions 5/5 - TORQUE, TORQUE, TORQUE. This engine feels like a big block and I'm sure it only gets better once its broken in. It positively makes the 5L V10 of my M6 seems weak in comparison driving around town. Dont get me wrong, winding out that BMW engine was an experience by itself, however, daily driving it just didn't feel that fast (lower torque figures and more weight). I feel it feels significantly faster than the E92 M3 (I've had a lot of experience with that car) with its 290ish pounds feet of torque, which has a smaller version of the engine in the M6 (basically the 4L is an M6's 5LV10 with two cylinders lopped off). I've always enjoyed the strong reliable 'mod friendly' motor that the Coyote is - the power is there down low, mid range and up in the band, basically everywhere. I have NOT revved the car too much or pushed it hard as its too green and I haven't had a chance. The STI (and 335) have decent torque around 3000 rpm but run out of steam quickly - not the Coyote. The throttle also feel very responsive, a quality I appreciate with NA engines. Brakes are first class - not as grabby as my M6 brakes (which I think are some of the strongest brakes I've ever experienced) and I hope to see how they hold up when I push the car. I have not driven the car enough to comment on handling except the steering feels great, the steering speed is very good, feedback is good (not as good as Miata, better than M4 and C7), and I like the customizable effort. The biggest thing I noticed about the driving experience is the suspension tune on rough roads. Prior American cars I've driven that are performance oriented crash on bumps/unevenness and are overly stiff. This car seems to have somehow acquired the BMW art of having a sporty stiff suspension that has that suppleness in the last inch of travel - remarkable and says something about the IRS and the dampers/springs. The car is not thrown off by bad roads - something my M6 at times would and the last S197 was plagued by.
Exterior Fit and Finish 2.5/5- My biggest beef is here. I suspect the flat rock assembly plant has old robots that need upgrading as they cannot deliver German or Japanese level of tolerances in panels. Panel gaps are uneven, the hood is mildly unaligned and the gas cap does not sit flush against the body. I think the hood can be fixed - but there are still varying gaps. 99% of people wont notice it (my wife didn't) but I'm a perfectionist and it bothered me a bit. Forget BMW, even a Camry has far far better panel fitting (or Ford's European Focus). It's not new tooling either, the last S197 even in later years had terribly aligned panels. Toyota's TPS manufacturing would never permit this kind of sloppiness. OTOH, the paint is leagues better than the paint on my BMW and infinitely better than the think easily marred paint on Honda's and Acura's. The BMW paint was thick and strong but had horrible orange peel - the TY paint is quite smooth and has no blobs or uneven spots (perhaps its because its a premium paint). No swirls etc either from the factory (I didnt let the dealer touch it). Will see how the paint holds up.
Sound 2.5/5 - A huge let down. It sounds sweet inside the cabin (quite nice actually as soon as you start driving) but the sense of theater and drama that the S197 had when you fired it up is gone. Its WAY TOO MUTED, esp at startup. Perhaps this is to cater to a broader group of people, but if you're getting a Performance Pack you should get more sound. This is going to be a mod I will make soon - I feel Ford is trying to up-sell folks into the FRPP Borla systems. I know the Coyote can sound incredible so I'm a bit bummed Ford gagged the pony from the factory.
Overall - These kinds of cars are emotional purchases and are supposed to be fun - in fact, Mustang to me has always been about fast fun, a car that urges you to stop taking things too seriously and just have a good time, I'll even say a little sassy and a tad irreverent. I think in that regard, Ford has nailed it (other than the sound). Walking up to it gives me a huge grin, the pony projection on the ground makes all my friends smile, the view from the seat with the huge yellow hood is incredible, mycolor gives it a 'fun feel'. I'll post more impressions in a thousand miles or so but so far, I think if you're on the fence - get it. I've got a ton of experience with cars like the Camaro (in SS and 1LE form) and while hot shoes like Randy and all will appreciate GM's incredible chassis tuning, for most folks out there, I do believe the Mustang is a far superior choice (and thats before getting into the aftermarket) - more comfortable, better driving position, faster revving engine (I find the LS3 a bit lazy), and ergonomics and just a tighter better put together nicer looking and feeling package. Also, if you are a straight line guy no doubt the new M4 is the way to go - that engine is underrated and seriously strong but I feel BMW is missing some of the nuanced driving magic they had in their E46, E36, V10 M5/M6, 2003 M coupe etc. :cheers:
Pardon the cell phone photos, haven't had time to use my DSLR. Also, the TY doesn't photograph very accurately and even in real life it changes tone/shade. Today for example it looked like a matte finish with the gray skies and rain. Def a shot of color in misty beautiful Seattle. Photo with our 'new to us' 1929 Tudor in the background - yes, a Jag E type or vintage car would look more appropriate
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