BASE GT BRAKES SUCK

ZanarkO · Sep 26, 2017

I want to point this out. After the previous thread of people comparing the 4 pistons and upgrading rotors and pads and etc, I have officially come to the conclusion that if you have a base gt and you plan to do any type of real road course driving with your car and you are past the level of a beginner you have to change your brakes to the 6 piston set up or better. PERIOD. The price of a 6 piston set up is only 1200 with everything and it will provide plenty of braking power with NO fade if you have good fluid. Yes you can upgrade your 4 pistons with rotors, and cooling mods, and fluid and pads, however the cost of quality parts WILL exceed the price of a STOCK Ford brembo 6 piston conversion and WILL NOT provide the bite and longevity of the stock set up. This is fact. I have learned this first hand from an event on sunday against my base and my friends PP and it was night and day. Do not waste your money on upgrading your 4 pistons. Buy a set of 19 inch wheels and buy the 6 piston brembos. This needs to be your second mod after buying wheels and sticky tires.

Norm Peterson · Sep 26, 2017

Track pads of appropriate temperature capability are going to be expensive no matter how many pistons the calipers have, and you're still going to want some additional cooling to dump all that heat. Brake temperatures may not peak quite as high because the bigger rotors make better heat sinks, but they may not cool off as much between braking events for the same reason.

What pads were you running with the 4-piston setup?

Norm

F0J · Sep 28, 2017

While I agree, if you're mindful of the performance of your (stock) braking setup, decent lap times can be had.

I'd argue that if you do upgrade the brakes, you'll probably have to stiffen the chassis somehow to counterbalance the more aggressive braking i.e. moving the weight around.

From my experience, cooling is such a factor it's a shame Ford didn't build it into the car off the get go.

I'm in this exact positions. Wheels and rubber - what's next? Data acquisition. After? Cage, seats and restraints. After? Probably a full chassis rebuild with an AP or Brembo club setup.

c_reber · Sep 28, 2017

F0J said:
From my experience, cooling is such a factor it's a shame Ford didn't build it into the car off the get go.

They did on GT performance pack! I am actually still on my stock pads/rotors (I have PP). But I've probably done about 8-10 trackdays on them, never have fade or even noise. I have upgraded the fluid, but that's it. I've been quite impressed with the 6 piston brembos so far, and the small cooling vanes ford put on.

However I can't comment on the regular gt brakes, but if you can get a full GTPP brake set-up for about $1200 that's a good deal for a nice set of brakes.

danny0441 · Sep 28, 2017

c_reber said:
They did on GT performance pack! I am actually still on my stock pads/rotors (I have PP). But I've probably done about 8-10 trackdays on them, never have fade or even noise. I have upgraded the fluid, but that's it. I've been quite impressed with the 6 piston brembos so far, and the small cooling vanes ford put on.

However I can't comment on the regular gt brakes, but if you can get a full GTPP brake set-up for about $1200 that's a good deal for a nice set of brakes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-2016-F...ash=item3d49350e6b:g:jj4AAOSwdPBZw87y&vxp=mtr

TommyC · Sep 29, 2017

Less brake, more gas, and you'll go faster.

qtrracer · Sep 29, 2017

Better car control and being smooth. I've run my 86 with 13" 2-piston Cobra brakes without fade (yeah - bit lighter). While I'll agree that the bigger Brembos are impressive, I hardly ever get into them that hard and when I do it's only for an instant. Heat control is the biggest factor with the larger, thicker rotors. Piston number just distributes the pressure more evenly for better wear and torque distribution. But the 4-piston Brembos have more than adequate brake torque for the s550 short of a full-zuit racer car.

ddozier · Sep 29, 2017

I have two full seasons on my OEM PP brake setup with Carbotech XP20 pads up front and XP12 pads on the OEM rears, The PP brake setup in the front is fantastic and with proper ducting is very hard to beat. Pads are comparable to other setups but the biggest pro is the OEM 15" rotors while heavy are very durable and ultra cheap. I have yet to wear out a front rotor, I do however start the year off with a fresh set of front rotors every season and carry a used set as backups in case I do crack one someday. Anyone with base brakes should consider the PP front brake upgrade before any other brake kit unless cost is no issue there is no better value for the Mustang.

For those looking for a better price the cost to change the car over is very reasonable. Two new PP rotors and two new PP calipers is going to cost you $760.00 or less shipped to your door if you look around for the best pricing. Installation is straight forward and the average DIY guy can handle it. Throw in some new track rated fluid and pads and you are just a little over $1100.00 all in.

Now the rear brake setup is another story, I am looking at options there but do not have a plan as of yet to deal with the rear brake caliper issues. The rear calipers are replaced every season on my car because it is cheaper to replace them than mess with rebuilding them. Until there is a way to get rid of the floating caliper design in the rear the brake pad wear and rotor wear will always be less than ideal. You can help your rear pad wear by moving your pads from inboard to outboard at 1/2 life but even then they will not wear even and pad life will be compromised. The rear rotors are also an issue since the cooling veins are open to the outside of the wheel and therefore cooling ducts need to be routed to the surface of the disc rather than the center of the rotor, not ideal. For a truly competitive rear brake setup rotors and calipers will need to be replaced with a better design. I am hoping the '18s or '19s get an upgrade that can be used on older cars. The GT350 rear setup is a nice upgrade but is a little pricey and my 18" Apex wheels do not clear the rear GT350 brakes.

Dave

ZanarkO · Sep 30, 2017

ddozier said:
I have two full seasons on my OEM PP brake setup with Carbotech XP20 pads up front and XP12 pads on the OEM rears, The PP brake setup in the front is fantastic and with proper ducting is very hard to beat. Pads are comparable to other setups but the biggest pro is the OEM 15" rotors while heavy are very durable and ultra cheap. I have yet to wear out a front rotor, I do however start the year off with a fresh set of front rotors every season and carry a used set as backups in case I do crack one someday. Anyone with base brakes should consider the PP front brake upgrade before any other brake kit unless cost is no issue there is no better value for the Mustang.

For those looking for a better price the cost to change the car over is very reasonable. Two new PP rotors and two new PP calipers is going to cost you $760.00 or less shipped to your door if you look around for the best pricing. Installation is straight forward and the average DIY guy can handle it. Throw in some new track rated fluid and pads and you are just a little over $1100.00 all in.

Now the rear brake setup is another story, I am looking at options there but do not have a plan as of yet to deal with the rear brake caliper issues. The rear calipers are replaced every season on my car because it is cheaper to replace them than mess with rebuilding them. Until there is a way to get rid of the floating caliper design in the rear the brake pad wear and rotor wear will always be less than ideal. You can help your rear pad wear by moving your pads from inboard to outboard at 1/2 life but even then they will not wear even and pad life will be compromised. The rear rotors are also an issue since the cooling veins are open to the outside of the wheel and therefore cooling ducts need to be routed to the surface of the disc rather than the center of the rotor, not ideal. For a truly competitive rear brake setup rotors and calipers will need to be replaced with a better design. I am hoping the '18s or '19s get an upgrade that can be used on older cars. The GT350 rear setup is a nice upgrade but is a little pricey and my 18" Apex wheels do not clear the rear GT350 brakes.

Dave

THIS! I've just seen a few threads of people asking questions and since I was able to test these two vehicles back to back at the exact same track on the exact same day I felt it was worth me sharing my opinion. I do not think my brakes did terrible, and honestly if you are not an aggressive driver they would do fine especially at a HPDE level 1. However I was finding myself becoming frustrated and the fade was really bothering me. I could not go in as deep as I wanted. I just think for the price the factory 6 piston set up is fantastic.

Stuntman · Oct 2, 2017

The GTPP 6-piston brakes are a hell of a deal. They're going to make buying aftermarket "BBK"s unnecessary and far more expensive. Depending on the track, driver experience, and tires, the stock GTPP pads hold up quite well to pretty significant abuse when using a good brake fluid like Castrol SRF. Upgrade the pads and you're pretty much set for most drivers/tracks out there.

The stock GT brakes don't "Suck" and are quite capable as well with a pad and fluid upgrade, especially if you get some cooling to them. However for the price, it's a no-brainer to buy the GTPP 6 pistons.

Norm Peterson · Oct 3, 2017

ZanarkO said:
THIS! I've just seen a few threads of people asking questions and since I was able to test these two vehicles back to back at the exact same track on the exact same day I felt it was worth me sharing my opinion. I do not think my brakes did terrible, and honestly if you are not an aggressive driver they would do fine especially at a HPDE level 1. However I was finding myself becoming frustrated and the fade was really bothering me. I could not go in as deep as I wanted.

I'd still like to know what pads (and fluid) were the limiting factors here.

Maybe I'm being overly cautious here, but I wouldn't count on being able to drive my hardest for a full session on OE regular production pads or anything from a category name that includes the word 'street'.

Getting into green fade with track pads is different.

Norm

ZanarkO · Oct 3, 2017

Norm Peterson said:
I'd still like to know what pads (and fluid) were the limiting factors here.

Maybe I'm being overly cautious here, but I wouldn't count on being able to drive my hardest for a full session on OE regular production pads or anything from a category name that includes the word 'street'.

Getting into green fade with track pads is different.

Norm

100% factory brakes and fluid. Car only has 8k miles

ZanarkO · Oct 3, 2017

Norm Peterson said:
I'd still like to know what pads (and fluid) were the limiting factors here.

Maybe I'm being overly cautious here, but I wouldn't count on being able to drive my hardest for a full session on OE regular production pads or anything from a category name that includes the word 'street'.

Getting into green fade with track pads is different.

Norm

But the second car was on a factory brembo 6 piston set up and had NO fade issues and 100 percent stock pads and fluid as well. I'm just saying for the price of the factory 6 piston set up it just makes more sense to upgrade since factory pieces seem to do fine on the track.

ricardocabesa · Oct 3, 2017

On Friday,I traded my 3 month-old EB for a '17 GT with Performance Package. I can't describe the day and night difference between the base EB brakes and the Brembos.

Eritas · Oct 6, 2017

ZanarkO said:
100% factory brakes and fluid. Car only has 8k miles

Lol. Try better fluid! Then better pads.

ricardocabesa said:
On Friday,I traded my 3 month-old EB for a '17 GT with Performance Package. I can't describe the day and night difference between the base EB brakes and the Brembos.

What track did you test them on?

BASE GT BRAKES SUCK

ZanarkO

Well-Known Member

Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter

F0J

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c_reber

REB3R

danny0441

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TommyC

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qtrracer

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ddozier

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ZanarkO

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Stuntman

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Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter

ZanarkO

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ZanarkO

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ricardocabesa

STD free

Eritas

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