Any one done a Balance Shaft Delete?

I have not been under my car in a while, but I have thought about doing the balance shaft delete for quite some time now.

What is the process like to remove the oil pan? My forum searching skills are clearly subpar as I could not find the info.

Glenn G said:

the 18 lbs that low isn't much to be sure, it's the extra mass of the balance shafts the crank has to accelerate and decelerate to twice crank speed (14,000 rpm:eyebulge that give you the benefit.

NVH does not appear to be a problem look at this video i found on the FoRS forum.




Lastly my research is pointing to this possibly being the cause of failure on un-tuned engines. I have been wracking my brain trying to figure out why it is usually rod #3 that goes, a batch of bad rods would be spread over all 4, so would LSPI, same for bad injectors causing lean conditions. But lets say you are gently leaving a stop as most of the failures seem to indicate so you accelerate from idle (800 rpm)to 4000 rpm. the balance shafts, (there are 2) have to zing from 1600 rpm to 8000 in that same amount of time. if it drags for 1 milisecond the number 3 rod gets all of the load (the crank shaft flexing and moving in the bearings will mitigate it somewhat for the further cylinders). #3 is actually part of the ring gear carrier and can never move enough to absorb a sudden change of forces.

All of this is pure theory but I have been trolling the MS3 forums for a case of an engine with a BSD failing (When not doing something stupid) and can't find any.

I know 3 MS3 owners here in Germany one had an engine blow on a conservative tune. Mazda did warranty the engine which was nice. The other two have been on upgraded turbos for 2 or 3 years and still running strong. Guess what they removed early? I've been in all three cars and cant really tell a difference (the big turbo cars are significantly louder but It mostly feels like Exhaust booming to me).

The BS carrier does not have fitted bearings like the Crankshaft, it relies purely on the oil film and the loose tolerances. This is insane for a part that has to rev like it does!

This is all anecdotal evidence and I may possibly be wrong but It's coming out of my car as soon as I can manage it. Not many times that you can remove a point of failure and increase power for basically free.

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I made a big post about the same thing within the last few days and even included pics of a disassembled crankshaft with the BS counterweight de-ringed. You'd be amazed how easy it is to knock that gear off of the counterweight.

smdandb2 said:

I have not been under my car in a while, but I have thought about doing the balance shaft delete for quite some time now.

What is the process like to remove the oil pan? My forum searching skills are clearly subpar as I could not find the info.

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It'd be easiest to pull the engine to do it. I don't know that I'd want the headache of attempting it with the engine in the car. Plus, it'd be much easier to clean the mating surface with it out. That's a must have considering Ford uses sealant on everything and didn't gasket much of anything in these motors.

Juben said:

I made a big post about the same thing within the last few days and even included pics of a disassembled crankshaft with the BS counterweight de-ringed. You'd be amazed how easy it is to knock that gear off of the counterweight.

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I went and found your post and you and I are of exactly the same mind on this, We both came to the same conclusions independently. I don't have the connections to glean information from the dealer network like you do but what you have found with #3 being the main mode of failure and #2 being the second most common lends strength to our theory. I won't call it corroboration yet.

I will be doing the delete on my next oil change. actually my mechanic will because I don't feel like messing with the oil pan and lifting the motor!

Your finding that the ring gear is pressed on and easy to knock off is what made my decision. 2 things about that really bother me.
1) inline 4s have perfect primary balance, they suffer from a secondary imbalance because the pistons are moving faster at the top than the bottom so it is twice per crankshaft rotation. If that pressed on gear slips just a little-bit the counter force from the balance shafts stops becoming a canceling wave but interfering wave (Both happening at twice engine speed!) at some point they will reach a resonance that will be destructive especially to a cracked powder forged piece like our rods.
This makes sense why rods are failing at low load low rpm. The resonance is independent of power, only rpm. once the slip puts the resonance zone in the 2-4000 rpm range where our motors spend most of their life puttering around the city it begins fatiguing the rods immediately forming internal cracks that are the beginning of the end.

2) The ring is helical so if it comes out of alignment even a little, it begins imparting huge load (think of how an improperly shimmed differential whines like mad until it shortly eats itself) to the crank and the balance shaft. probably killing both at the rpms they see.

Tuned Cars accelerate harder and tend to be revved higher, revving those heavy balance shafts from 1600 rpm to 14000 rpm in the span of a few seconds has to impart huge load on that gear probably leading to more incidence of slip. It would be extremely difficult to tell if that gear moved a millimeter or so in the engine's postmortem autopsy.

After looking at the crank girdle I am now in agreement with you that the balance shaft can not add that much rigidity over what the girdle does. the bolts on the girdle would basically need to pull out before the carrier would start seeing significant load. It still does add some so I'm going to remove it completely for now until I can plug all of the oil holes in it to install in a built engine when the tme comes for that.

I actually was about to order the ford performance delete part #M-6026-23BSBP ($40) but found the CFM one is identical at $29 and I have Amazon prime. So Yeah even Ford performance has no prolem with deleting this hunk of garbage.

So I guess I can be the test case of a stock motor, Full bolt-ons, big turbo. I am currently at ~30k miles.

I have just completed the BS delete on my lightly modded EB Mustang and it does take a little time to get the oil pan out. The best way I found is to use a couple of small 2x4 pieces of wood and place on the front side corners of the engine bay and use an engine support brace and pull the engine up after removing the 2 motor mount nuts, downpipe and your pipes going down to the intercooler. You will probably need to find a good long bolt to use to attach the chains. Pull the engine up until it just touches the top of the firewall. At this point you will need a lift to raise the car or jack up as high as possible while leaving the front engine cradle clear of any jack stands or jacks. Loosen up the 6 nuts on each side then begin to remove each of them carefully. You can support the engine cradle with a jack or jack stand if you have to do this on the ground with jack stands but not really necessary unless you are going to be directly under the cradle for safety reasons. I found there to be plenty of tension from the suspension components to not allow it to just drop down suddenly. I actually had to pull down on the cradle to get enough clearance to remove the oil pan. Don't forget the trans lines for auto cars that need the nuts removed from the brackets to give enough flex to push them out of the way.

BlueStorm said:

I have just completed the BS delete on my lightly modded EB Mustang and it does take a little time to get the oil pan out. The best way I found is to use a couple of small 2x4 pieces of wood and place on the front side corners of the engine bay and use an engine support brace and pull the engine up after removing the 2 motor mount nuts, downpipe and your pipes going down to the intercooler. You will probably need to find a good long bolt to use to attach the chains. Pull the engine up until it just touches the top of the firewall. At this point you will need a lift to raise the car or jack up as high as possible while leaving the front engine cradle clear of any jack stands or jacks. Loosen up the 6 nuts on each side then begin to remove each of them carefully. You can support the engine cradle with a jack or jack stand if you have to do this on the ground with jack stands but not really necessary unless you are going to be directly under the cradle for safety reasons. I found there to be plenty of tension from the suspension components to not allow it to just drop down suddenly. I actually had to pull down on the cradle to get enough clearance to remove the oil pan. Don't forget the trans lines for auto cars that need the nuts removed from the brackets to give enough flex to push them out of the way.

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Thanks for your input @BlueStorm , I have a few questions if you don't mind.

What do you mean by lightly modded? I only ask because people's definitions of "lightly modded" vary wildly!
How many miles did you have before doing the delete and what is it currently?
How much more vibration do you notice? I'm guessing not alot.
How does the engine feel revving?
About how long did the process take you start to finish?

I think I will start a thread keeping track of Engines with the balance shafts deleted and mileage. We will either show a direct corroboration between removing them and reliability 9as pretty much proven on 4g63s and looking like a strong contender on Speed 3s (An older weaker version of this engine) or remove it as a point of concern. Either way it it's a win win.

I just did it last week so not many miles yet. Roughly 35k on the car now. From start to finish I would say about 3 hours. Haven't really noticed any difference in vibration... maybe slightly at lower RPMs but very minor. My mods are all the basics:. CAI, down pipe, full exhaust, bigger intercooler, and tune. Don't really notice a huge difference in power but does seem to rev a little easier. Mine is an Auto so maybe difference in manual ones. You definitely get a greater oil capacity 6-7 quarts after removing.

BlueStorm said:

I just did it last week so not many miles yet. Roughly 35k on the car now. From start to finish I would say about 3 hours. Haven't really noticed any difference in vibration... maybe slightly at lower RPMs but very minor. My mods are all the basics:. CAI, down pipe, full exhaust, bigger intercooler, and tune. Don't really notice a huge difference in power but does seem to rev a little easier. Mine is an Auto so maybe difference in manual ones. You definitely get a greater oil capacity 6-7 quarts after removing.

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You are basically running the same set up as I am Full bolt-ons and tune. While I wouldn't exactly consider us 'lightly' modified, I won't consider it 'heavy' until the big turbo goes in.

You have more miles than I do as well so i think we will both be good test cases.

Thanks for your reply, It removed any shred of doubt in my mind that this is good thing to do for any modified engine.

[MENTION=13694]Juben[/MENTION]

Any updates on your BSD effort?

I'd like to hear more about the results too. Sounds interesting

CustomS550 said:

[MENTION=13694]Juben[/MENTION]

Any updates on your BSD effort?

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Yep, purrs like a kitten and I didn't notice any additional NVH over having them in. If it added anything, it is very minute to me.

All still good after roughly 2k miles since install.

Mine is running great, better than before, currently on E30 base tune to datalog for Adam.
It did take 7.5 quarts to get it t full!

If you don't do it yourself, about what would the labor costs for bsd be Glenn?

Ebm said:

If you don't do it yourself, about what would the labor costs for bsd be Glenn?

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Was pricey as he charged me 6 hours of labor, he removed the front cross member to drop the pan as he said he didn't get enough clearance lifting the engine. it took around two hours trying the engine lift so the remaining 4 hours seems reasonable (which includes reassembly, oil change and checking for leaks).
People on here have done it just lifting the engine so it might be much less for someone more familiar with it.
So figure 3-4 hours of labor at your local shop.