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BASE GT BRAKES SUCK

Norm Peterson

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... the loose front end on the base GT might use up the front brakes more than the rears on the stiffer PP because the front sees more load.
It doesn't work that way. Forward load transfer depends only on braking g's, wheelbase, and sprung mass CG height. Remember that braking does not physically move any weight forward (other than fluid slosh and loose cargo/passengers).

Cliff's Notes version of what nose dive under braking is - it's only a visual indication that load transfer is happening and that it's compressing the front suspension and extending the rear suspension because they are not solid/infinitely stiff connections between the chassis and the wheels.


Norm
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F0J

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It doesn't work that way. Forward load transfer depends only on braking g's, wheelbase, and sprung mass CG height. Remember that braking does not physically move any weight forward (other than fluid slosh and loose cargo/passengers).

Cliff's Notes version of what nose dive under braking is - it's only a visual indication that load transfer is happening and that it's compressing the front suspension and extending the rear suspension because they are not solid/infinitely stiff connections between the chassis and the wheels.


Norm
Thanks Norm. I haven't yet hit the books but I plan to.
 

Norm Peterson

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DPE

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Could be construed as apples to oranges, but I had a 2014 Brembo package S197; 4-pot brembos and 14" rotors. I ran Motul RBF600. It had the JLT cooling ducts. And I used a variety of pads including XP12s, DTC60s, EBC Orange, etc. It was a decent braking system. However, it still got hot, fried piston dust seals (not the actual piston seals, thankfully, just the dust seals), and generally felt just ok. No fade issues, just didn't always feel consistent etc.

A good friend bought an S550 PP. Despite feeling very wrong not to change pads or fluid, he decided to track it bone stock. The brakes were vastly better than my car (we swapped for a session). Mine didn't ever fade, but the pedal is slightly inconsistent, and definitely softer. Just don't inspire as much confidence. His car had a rock-solid pedal, and was just dead consistent every braking zone. A year and a few events later we were both on KW V3s, I was on NT05s, he on Pilot SS (275s all around on both cars). Same story on the brakes. And this time we swapped cars and within three laps I was faster in his car than I EVER was in my car, and this would be after a couple HUNDRED laps of this particular track in S197s. Obviously it's not all just brakes, but they played a large role. They simply work. You don't even have to think about them; just work on your driving and you know they'll be there every time.

He since bought a 981 Cayman S, and I liked his S550 so much I bought it from him. Not just for the brakes of course, but again, it played a role. Having unflappable brakes on track that are dead nuts consistent is a great thing, and you don't realize how great until you've had them. We drove RX-8s before, and with good pads and fluid they were similarly remarkable.

We have both been instructors a few times, and both have in excess of 4000 track miles across a few different tracks. I'm not saying we're some kind of experts, just saying we've been doing this awhile and run decent times for amateurs.

I have no doubt the 4-pot setup on a base Mustang GT can be made track-worthy. My S197 Brembos certainly were capable. And given wheel limitations, etc., for some that's a good way to go. But if you've got wheels than can fit PP brakes and can swing it, it's a world class braking system. And the first I've ever owned that doesn't require a pad change for track use (provided you're not on R-comps or running tracks with massive straights, at least for us). That's a really nice thing after 20 years of swapping pads and flushing fluid all the time and dealing with cracked rotors every few events with some cars etc.

You can discuss the theory behind pad size, rotor size, caliper stiffness, etc. ad nauseum, but what matters is how they perform objectively and how they feel subjectively on track. I have not sampled S550 4-pots and thus can't comment specifically on them. But stock S550 PP brakes are utterly fantastic, much better subjectively than S197 Brembo 4-pots even with better pads/fluid/cooling ducts, and most importantly allow you to simply focus on driving the car instead of worrying about what the brakes will feel like in the next braking zone. That, to me, is worth a whole bunch in a car I drive on track. YMMV

Phil
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