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Any one done a Balance Shaft Delete?

Juben

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Dropping the front subframe is the correct way to do it, by Ford's instructions. The benefit of doing that is to have more room to ensure that everything is cleaned up good before resealing it all.
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MiDiablo

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Mine's deleted with the Maximum Motorsports kit. Was installed by Tune+ when they assembled my long block. No clue about NVH, because my car is loud af everywhere, lol.
 
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Glenn G

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Mine's deleted with the Maximum Motorsports kit. Was installed by Tune+ when they assembled my long block. No clue about NVH, because my car is loud af everywhere, lol.
Yeah tune+ won't put it back into any engine. They delete it on all their builds. The increase in nvh is so minimal, I wonder if it was always there and I didn't notice because I wasn't looking for it.
 

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Yeah tune+ won't put it back into any engine. They delete it on all their builds. The increase in nvh is so minimal, I wonder if it was always there and I didn't notice because I wasn't looking for it.
They've recently been gutting the carriage and re-installing them without the BS in them. I haven't noticed much of any NVH with mine. I can feel a little more movement of the engine through the chassis now but that's only when I pay specific attention to focus in on it. Most people would never notice it.
 

UAmach1

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As a newbie not familiar with terms, what's the balance shaft do and what is "NVH"? Last i4 I worked on was a Zetec, and those idled like SHIT until you just put in some good plugs and Ford Racing plug wires, then it would idle so smooth you'd not even know it was on some times.
 

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Noise
Vibration
Harshness
 
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Glenn G

Glenn G

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As a newbie not familiar with terms, what's the balance shaft do and what is "NVH"? Last i4 I worked on was a Zetec, and those idled like SHIT until you just put in some good plugs and Ford Racing plug wires, then it would idle so smooth you'd not even know it was on some times.
Inline 4 engines have perfect primary balance but have a secondary imbalance (twice crankshaft speed at half the intensity) due to the Pistons moving faster at the top than at the bottom due to geometry. In smaller engines with short strokes (sub 2 liter) it is so minor that it can't be felt by the occupants and balance shafts are omitted. Our engine is basically a stroker version of the 2.0 in the focus st. The balance shafts are two intentionally unbalanced counter rotating shafts in the oil pan that mask this vibration by cancelling out the motion before the occupants can feel it. Unfortunately in our application it is driven directly by a gear pressed into the crank and transmits it's cancelling vibration directly to it. After studying the design of the ring gear, crank, and shafts themselves as well as some studies on metallurgical harmonics, I found enough circumstancial evidence (not direct as I don't have access to failed engines or Ford research) to formulate a hypothesis that a slip of the ring on the crank by as little as 2 degrees can change the vibration from cancelling to interference.
Having removed my balance shafts and on a big turbo on a fairly aggressive tune, I am being my own guinea pig for my theory. Honestly, the extra vibration is barely noticeable and I actually prefer the added character of the motor. My wife who does not like my louder exhaust has noticed nothing and actually noted the engine sounded better and smoother when cruising. The added engine response and loss of 18 lbs are just icing on the cake.
 

UAmach1

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Inline 4 engines have perfect primary balance but have a secondary imbalance (twice crankshaft speed at half the intensity) due to the Pistons moving faster at the top than at the bottom due to geometry. In smaller engines with short strokes (sub 2 liter) it is so minor that it can't be felt by the occupants and balance shafts are omitted. Our engine is basically a stroker version of the 2.0 in the focus st. The balance shafts are two intentionally unbalanced counter rotating shafts in the oil pan that mask this vibration by cancelling out the motion before the occupants can feel it. Unfortunately in our application it is driven directly by a gear pressed into the crank and transmits it's cancelling vibration directly to it. After studying the design of the ring gear, crank, and shafts themselves as well as some studies on metallurgical harmonics, I found enough circumstancial evidence (not direct as I don't have access to failed engines or Ford research) to formulate a hypothesis that a slip of the ring on the crank by as little as 2 degrees can change the vibration from cancelling to interference.
Having removed my balance shafts and on a big turbo on a fairly aggressive tune, I am being my own guinea pig for my theory. Honestly, the extra vibration is barely noticeable and I actually prefer the added character of the motor. My wife who does not like my louder exhaust has noticed nothing and actually noted the engine sounded better and smoother when cruising. The added engine response and loss of 18 lbs are just icing on the cake.
Thanks for the in-depth explanation. I wonder if anyone could get a Ford engineer to explain exactly why they included it if seemingly no negatives can be found to removing it. They must have found something to be worth the R&D and cost to implement.
 
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Glenn G

Glenn G

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Thanks for the in-depth explanation. I wonder if anyone could get a Ford engineer to explain exactly why they included it if seemingly no negatives can be found to removing it. They must have found something to be worth the R&D and cost to implement.
Yes, some magazines have already called the engine un-refined and truck like (The ford Ranger actually used this block 2.3 NA without balance shafts). And under the right set of circumstances (like when idle drops real low for a few seconds after the cold start cycle is over) it becomes far more noticeable than when the shafts were in it.

The carrier itself is unchanged from the one used in the FoST 2.0 and identical to the one in the Mazda Speed 3 so it didn't cost ford any development money to leave it in.

Again, I can't find evidence of a single balance shaft deleted engine 2.0 or 2.3 failing unexpectedly.
 

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Yes, some magazines have already called the engine un-refined and truck like (The ford Ranger actually used this block 2.3 NA without balance shafts). And under the right set of circumstances (like when idle drops real low for a few seconds after the cold start cycle is over) it becomes far more noticeable than when the shafts were in it.
There's a documentary on Netflix called A Faster Horse. It's about the development of the sixth generation Mustang, and the history of the model in general. In it, chief engineer Dave Pericak and chief technical officer Tom Barnes can be heard discussing NVH on several occasions. This Mustang was designed to compete worldwide with a number of highly refined cars from manufacturers known for their attention to detail. That Ford was dilligent about NVH concerns isn't surprising.

People who review cars for a living are looking for exactly this kind of thing to differentiate between competitors. Too much tingle on a single popular reviewer's calibrated tushy can be enough to lose a head-to-head between closely matched cars.
 

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Glenn G

Glenn G

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There's a documentary on Netflix called A Faster Horse. It's about the development of the sixth generation Mustang, and the history of the model in general. In it, chief engineer Dave Pericak and chief technical officer Tom Barnes can be heard discussing NVH on several occasions. This Mustang was designed to compete worldwide with a number of highly refined cars from manufacturers known for their attention to detail. That Ford was dilligent about NVH concerns isn't surprising.

People who review cars for a living are looking for exactly this kind of thing to differentiate between competitors. Too much tingle on a single popular reviewer's calibrated tushy can be enough to lose a head-to-head between closely matched cars.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
 

GJarrett

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...I think I will start a thread keeping track of Engines with the balance shafts deleted and mileage. We will either show a direct corroboration between removing them and reliability 9as pretty much proven on 4g63s and looking like a strong contender on Speed 3s (An older weaker version of this engine) or remove it as a point of concern. Either way it it's a win win.
Bringing this 6 year old thread back up; if you started another thread couldn't find it in search. My lightly modded EcoBoost (intercooler, Ford Performance tune) grenaded #3 at 119k miles while leisurely accelerating onto a freeway onramp. I now have the MAP performance Stage 1 shortblock with BSD and am curious if your theory has held up and this may help cure the #3 Ecoboom failures. Does anyone have an update/answer?

EDIT: found the thread but it's hundreds of posts long... when I have time I'll read it later this week.
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