Paxton vs Whipple for hot climate?

Roh92cp · Feb 18, 2017

SolarFlare said:
Well you said it yourself, your ACT is before the blower so it's likely seeing a chill effect from the vaccuum the blower is pulling. Mine is in the charge flow. So what are your IAT2s?

The ACT that the Ngauge is pulling is a PID from the OBD and is not the same as the MAF inlet air what we are calling IAT 1. It's very likely this is extrapilated using other sensors as the coyote doesn't have a dedicated air charge sensor in the manifold after the MAF. I think we are confusing things here, when I reference the slow and inaccurate data I'm referring to a centi or turbo system that compresses pre MAF so the IAT displayed at the dash is being used. We know this sensor is not responsive and accurate above 85 degrees. Yes the sensor will show constant changes as if it's adjusting, however it's not tracking accurately when compared to other good known sensor data. I'm not the only one who has done testing on this, Dept of Boost who's business is making intercooler systems has proven this as well.

SolarFlare · Feb 18, 2017

Roh92cp said:
The ACT that the Ngauge is pulling is a PID from the OBD and is not the same as the MAF inlet air what we are calling IAT 1. It's very likely this is extrapilated using other sensors as the coyote doesn't have a dedicated air charge sensor in the manifold after the MAF. I think we are confusing things here, when I reference the slow and inaccurate data I'm referring to a centi or turbo system that compresses pre MAF so the IAT displayed at the dash is being used. We know this sensor is not responsive and accurate above 85 degrees. Yes the sensor will show constant changes as if it's adjusting, however it's not tracking accurately when compared to other good known sensor data. I'm not the only one who has done testing on this, Dept of Boost who's business is making intercooler systems has proven this as well.

The day I logged ambient was 62*, highest i saw was 75*. So if you have a rock solid IAT reading what differential are you seeing during a pull?

Roh92cp · Feb 18, 2017

SolarFlare said:
The day I logged ambient was 62*, highest i saw was 75*. So if you have a rock solid IAT reading what differential are you seeing during a pull?

The last time I took a pull 4th gear from 3-7 k it was 75 ambient and at the start of the pull IAT 1 was 5 above and AIT 2 started at 123 and went down to 115. It always goes down when the throttle opens because of air movement.

SolarFlare · Feb 18, 2017

Roh92cp said:
The last time I took a pull 4th gear from 3-7 k it was 75 ambient and at the start of the pull IAT 1 was 5 above and AIT 2 started at 123 and went down to 115. It always goes down when the throttle opens because of air movement.

Your IAT1 might drop, but post supercharger (PD)must go up. the increase in pressure also increases temperature. I've seen it on cobalts, Cobras and my Eaton Mach1. How does your IAT2s drop when the blower is doing work/compressing air??

Roh92cp · Feb 18, 2017

SolarFlare said:
Your IAT1 might drop, but post supercharger (PD)must go up. the increase in pressure also increases temperature. I've seen it on cobalts, Cobras and my Eaton Mach1. How does your IAT2s drop when the blower is doing work/compressing air??

I realize it sounds counter intuitive and on my previous setup 92 Fox with Kenne Bell and custom air to air set I made the IAT2 always went up.

Dustin owner of whipple with all the Durability testing he has done on this unit with the S550 confirms that IAT2 reduces in WOT state. One reason is the amount of cool air coming in when the throttle opens.

Here is my former setup, it was a custom job I designed and made and was one of a kind for sure.

SolarFlare · Feb 18, 2017

Roh92cp said:
I realize it sounds counter intuitive and on my previous setup 92 Fox with Kenne Bell and custom air to air set I made the IAT2 always went up.

Dustin owner of whipple with all the Durability testing he has done on this unit with the S550 confirms that IAT2 reduces in WOT state. One reason is the amount of cool air coming in when the throttle opens.

Here is my former setup, it was a custom job I designed and made and was one of a kind for sure.

Ok, counter intuitive is not really the words I would use. More like defying some laws of physics. Seems hard to believe that an unloaded compressors discharge temperature at a vaccuum would be higher than a loaded compressor at 10psi discharge spinning at xxxxx RPMs.

millhouse · Feb 18, 2017

SolarFlare said:
Ok, counter intuitive is not really the words I would use. More like defying some laws of physics. Seems hard to believe that an unloaded compressors discharge temperature at a vaccuum would be higher than a loaded compressor at 10psi discharge spinning at xxxxx RPMs.

I've seen this many times with foxbody intake manifolds under boost. mamy people argue against the ability of a thin wire sensor to hear soak, but the data suggested the sensor was reading something besides air temperature. It could have been radiant heat, from the intake, from the metal body of the sensor, stagnant air etc. The results however were always the same, higher than normal readings at part throttle/cruise and decreasing temps under boost.

SolarFlare · Feb 18, 2017

millhouse said:
I've seen this many times with foxbody intake manifolds under boost. mamy people argue against the ability of a thin wire sensor to hear soak, but the data suggested the sensor was reading something besides air temperature. It could have been radiant heat, from the intake, from the metal body of the sensor, stagnant air etc. The results however were always the same, higher than normal readings at part throttle/cruise and decreasing temps under boost.

On the inlet of a blower or the intake of an NA coyote that makes sense.

millhouse · Feb 18, 2017

SolarFlare said:
On the inlet of a blower or the intake of an NA coyote that makes sense.

The IAT sensor on the foxbody was post boost. I had datalogs showing a drop in temperature from mid 150 degrees F to mid 90s at 8-10lbs of boost.

Roh92cp · Feb 18, 2017

There is some heat transfer from a IAT sensor post blower when it sits in a intake track, and when throttle is closed slow air movement and recirculated air form bypass superheats it. When throttle opens bypass closes and fresh cool air is moving fast past the sensor and can reduce temps even with compressor heating air. The intercooler will scrub a lot of heat off the air being heated by the compressor, but it will start overtake it and start to rise if you have repeated WOT pulls.

Roh92cp · Feb 18, 2017

millhouse said:
The IAT sensor on the foxbody was post boost. I had datalogs showing a drop in temperature from mid 150 degrees F to mid 90s at 8-10lbs of boost.

What's up Millhouse so you came over from the corral as well :thumbsup:

millhouse · Feb 18, 2017

Roh92cp said:
What's up Millhouse so you came over from the corral as well

:cheers:

mustang1 · Feb 19, 2017

Roh92cp said:
... The intercooler will scrub a lot of heat off the air being heated by the compressor, but it will start overtake it and start to rise if you have repeated WOT pulls.

How many WOT pulls might you get in 100F before IAT2 is a problem? KB has an article estimating 10 degrees per PSI. So if it is 100F, and 8 psi, or 80 degrees, how many WOT pulls before the supercharger is too hot? I am assuming that once intercooler water is 100+80(F), there won't be much cooling.

Centri seems like it would have an advantage in hot weather, if for no other reason that it is creating less boost in the lower RPM.

SolarFlare · Feb 20, 2017

mustang1 said:
How many WOT pulls might you get in 100F before IAT2 is a problem? KB has an article estimating 10 degrees per PSI. So if it is 100F, and 8 psi, or 80 degrees, how many WOT pulls before the supercharger is too hot? I am assuming that once intercooler water is 100+80(F), there won't be much cooling.

Centri seems like it would have an advantage in hot weather, if for no other reason that it is creating less boost in the lower RPM.

His first pull put him at 115* already. Is the whipple tune pulling back at that point already like NA cars?

Obsol3te · Feb 20, 2017

SolarFlare said:
Ok, counter intuitive is not really the words I would use. More like defying some laws of physics. Seems hard to believe that an unloaded compressors discharge temperature at a vaccuum would be higher than a loaded compressor at 10psi discharge spinning at xxxxx RPMs.

You do realize that the Twin Screw compressor is CONSTANTLY compressing air and is being RECIRCULATED through the system and only when the engine detects a load you actually start to pull in FRESH air.
So it's not defying any laws of physics, it's just getting a colder air charge at the time.

Paxton vs Whipple for hot climate?

Roh92cp

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