2017 CHEVROLET CAMARO ZL1 VS. 2017 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT350R: THE FOREVER WAR

lemers said:

Read this backwards


A man, a plan, a canal, Panama


Its the same so palindrome

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amanaP ,lanac a ,nalp a ,nam A

Yes, they are exactly the same

My idea car is the handling of the GT350 with the power of my 14 GT500. If I didn't already have my GT350 I'd probably be rocking the ZL1.

I'm just glad I got some pixie dust!

roygriffin2020 said:

amanaP ,lanac a ,nalp a ,nam A

Yes, they are exactly the same

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I guess some people get conceptual ideas better than others.

Epiphany said:

I learned a few words I'll most likely never, ever use.

excrescence
noun:excrescence; plural noun: excrescences
a distinct outgrowth on a human or animal body or on a plant, especially one that is the result of disease or abnormality.


palindrome
noun: a word, phrase, verse, or sentence that reads the same backward or forward. For example: A man, a plan, a canal, Panama!

sonorous
adjective:
1. Having or producing sound.
2. Having or producing a full, deep, or rich sound.
3. Impressive in style of speech: a sonorous oration.

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Funny...and true.
Got to "excrescence" and figured the rest wasn't worth reading due the authors use of excrescence...
Who's he trying to impress :shrug:

stanglife said:

I suspect the ZL1 1LE will go the route of the ACR. It's going to be stupid fast on a track - but ultimately will not be as rewarding to drive as other cars. There are plenty of cars "faster" than the GT350R but none of them seem to get the "drivers car" attention the Mustang is getting right now. Who would have ever thought this day would come?

Bet GM is working hard on reducing weight on the 1LE.

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This is exactly it. The mustang 350R is a great drivers car. I doubt even the new GT500 feels as good, but thats to be expected...its going to weigh that much more. Sure it'll be fast, just wont feel as good. This 350R has spoiled me in terms of what I am looking for in my next car. I'm hoping the GT500 will win me over in some way or another. Maybe by the way the power is produced....who knows.. im just hoping for Ford hits another GRAND SLAM.

This wasn't even a base R in the test. That should squeak out some tiny fragment more performance/feel. I've been saying it for quite some time, how great of a driver the GT350 is.... it got a health dusting of pixy

lemers said:

I guess some people get conceptual ideas better than others.

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I understand if you remove all of the blanks and commas it is the same both ways, but alone the words are not. The topic belongs somewhere in off topic. It has nothing to do with this one.

My point was a simple one - if you come across some verbage you aren't familiar with, fine, look it up and learn something new. But when it happens repeatedly, it is either confirmation of an imperfect education (on the reader's part) or a bit of arrogance from the author. In the context of an automotive article comparing the current "best" pony cars, is it really necessary? That said, GM got robbed. They built a better performing car and lost the comparison.

The upcoming ZL1 1LE will be even more visceral than the "regular" 1LE. Based on the comments of those that wrote the article there is no way they are going to like that car either. I have little doubt it will further distance itself from the GT350R in terms of performance though. If you are looking for the fastest track car it is a pretty easy decision. That has never been my criterion as I always modify what I have to suit my tastes.

The best thing about the ZL1/1LE is it forces Ford to meet a certain minimum standard with their next effort, just as the GT350 did to GM's Camaro. There is simply no way the next GT500 (or whatever it may be called) is going to be slower or handle worse than the current GT350/R and I thank GM for holding Ford to task.

Yes, the GT500 will not be slower than the 350R otherwise they will be taking a step backward. The GT500 will be similar to the ZL1 though, there will be an additonal 200+ lbs on the nose, exactly where you don't want it. Just like in the article, they didn't like the nose weight of the ZL1. You can feel it. The ZL1L1E isn't going to change that. Its still going to feel that way, sure it may add stuff to make it faster, just like the GT500/next SE will do. This is why this NA 350R is so special, it feels great to drive. Sure you can modify a car to be better, feel better, but stock for stock, this is the best mustang ever produced. Yes, there will be faster, but will their ever be another that will feel this good to drive. I'm not so sure about that.

machsmith said:

The GT500 will be similar to the ZL1 though, there will be an additonal 200+ lbs on the nose, exactly where you don't want it.

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I'm not convinced of that. I think Ford will take a step in an unexpected direction, one that may not make every "traditional" Mustang performance buyer happy. I say that in the context of the assumption that it will be a supercharged V8 powerplant. I honestly don't care what powerplant they use as long as it is of robust design and puts out the power.

Epiphany said:

I'm not convinced of that. I think Ford will take a step in an unexpected direction, one that may not make every "traditional" Mustang performance buyer happy. I say that in the context of the assumption that it will be a supercharged V8 powerplant. I honestly don't care what powerplant they use as long as it is of robust design and puts out the power.

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A bit off topic, but what are your feelings on the "robustness" of the voodoo? I think we all saw some of the early failures on here much like the early Boss engines. I mean it from a context of 5,10 years from now and tens of thousands of miles later. Personally, based on your "voodoo child" article, I feel really good about the people and intentions behind this project, but time will tell. Obviously you felt strongly enough about it that you went out and bought one...and based on other posts, you wouldn't do something without thinking about it.:cheers:

Epiphany said:

I'm not convinced of that. I think Ford will take a step in an unexpected direction, one that may not make every "traditional" Mustang performance buyer happy. I say that in the context of the assumption that it will be a supercharged V8 powerplant. I honestly don't care what powerplant they use as long as it is of robust design and puts out the power.

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You may be right, but if they want to get around 20mpg there may be a problem. That v6 TT sucks fuel down like crazy. I was astonished how bad the GT got for being under 3000 lbs

Thanks for asking.

I try to look at it this way. The Coyote motor was monumental. The Boss brought improvement over and above the Coyote. The Voodoo version is no different save for one thing - the crank and inherent vibration. The core parts, block and cylinder heads, are highly engineered pieces that should take quite a beating.

After meeting the engineering staff and discussing the philosophy behind the engine I was definitely more interested than previous. I dug as deep as I could and they had an answer to every question, all of them good too. With respect to how this engine may differ after 100,000+ miles to the factory variants (all of which produce less power), I have faith in Ford's testing and take their word that the GT350 powerplant met all the internal durability standards. And this is why I feel no different about the next engine to come.

I go back and forth in my mind with the FPC vs CPC argument. But I will say this, tracking a GT350 and taking it to 8250 when other cars are forced to shift at far lower rpm's...gotta love it. And that's where the Voodoo shines, when screaming as hard and as loud as it can. Like no other. So until mine goes kaplooie!, I'm a firm believer.

DrumReaper said:

I'm just glad I got some pixie dust!

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Cant wait for my pixie dust!!! LOL

Epiphany said:

Thanks for asking.

I try to look at it this way. The Coyote motor was monumental. The Boss brought improvement over and above the Coyote. The Voodoo version is no different save for one thing - the crank and inherent vibration. The core parts, block and cylinder heads, are highly engineered pieces that should take quite a beating.

After meeting the engineering staff and discussing the philosophy behind the engine I was definitely more interested than previous. I dug as deep as I could and they had an answer to every question, all of them good too. With respect to how this engine may differ after 100,000+ miles to the factory variants (all of which produce less power), I have faith in Ford's testing and take their word that the GT350 powerplant met all the internal durability standards. And this is why I feel no different about the next engine to come.

I go back and forth in my mind with the FPC vs CPC argument. But I will say this, tracking a GT350 and taking it to 8250 when other cars are forced to shift at far lower rpm's...gotta love it. And that's where the Voodoo shines, when screaming as hard and as loud as it can. Like no other. So until mine goes kaplooie!, I'm a firm believer.

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Thank you for the insight. :cheers::cheers::ford::hail: