GT350R and ZL1 1LE MTBDC comparison

1mic said:

Kind of agree with this statement. The Viper is fun on the weekends and after driving for 2 days, it gets old quickly, specially when parking out in public.

During week days however, I get withdrawals and cant wait to hop in the viper again. Its thursday and want to just drive the fuggin thing. Not sure if i can make it till saturday, I just might drive it to work tomorrow. :headbonk:

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Best explanation why all of us own cars like this regardless of brand

cosmo said:

Anyone else annoyed that there wasn't a Ford GT in this? I would've loved to have read on it in comparison to the Ferrari.

Really kind of disappointed how Ford built the hype up so much and now it's just dead. They haven't supplied it to any comparison tests, competitions, anything apart from isolated reviews. No recorded lap times, anything. They came out swinging with their initial statements of versus a Mclaren 675LT, Ferrari 458 Speciale, and their own "press" lap times but seem to have fallen flat since the release.

The LeMans was cool and all but was that it...?

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I was hoping to see a GT as well. It didn't make it to Lightning Lap either.

RyanR3KC said:

How many people here have actually seen a ZL1 1LE in the flesh or driven it? This is another bench racing magazine thread. Even MotorTrend judges couldn't agree. Best quote from the story:

"The Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE’s fourth-place finish was a contentious one. We could agree on power and grip. The fact that all 650 of the Camaro’s horsepower is usable without instantly vaporizing the rear rubber is an engineering feat. But some of us maintained that a car couldn’t win Best Driver’s Car if you didn’t want to drive it every day. “I’ve probably lost all my fillings, and my kidneys are bruised,” Derek lamented, to which Jonny retorted: “Some judges thought the ride was too harsh on their way to Pilates class, but who cares? Finishing fourth is a failure of democracy.”

I'm curious how rough the ride is compared to a 5th Gen Z/28 since they roughly use the same suspension technology. I've driven the Z/28...it can be rough depending on what PTM mode you have her in. This ZL1 1LE did what it was meant to do. Destroy tracks. The car straight out performs....and that's her purpose.

**disclaimer** Yes...I know I own a '14 1LE...I'm cross shopping the ZL1 and the GT350 right now. I'm curious..and very intrigued by both cars.

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Hard to tell since the Ford GT also uses DSSV dampers (but adjustable damping/stiffness in addition to adjustable spring rates and ride height) and the reviews of the GT's ride quality is extremely positive for the street, even though there were some complaints of drone and road noise.

RyanR3KC said:

I was hoping to see a GT as well. It didn't make it to Lightning Lap either.

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LL is embarrassing and I wouldn't want to see it in that 'competition'. I would much rather see it in BDC, but if BDC takes comfort/ride quality/etc... into account, the GT may not win due to the noise inside the car, the same way a Lotus Elise/Exige has never won BDC. It's called Best "Drivers" car, but it seems like they put a lot of emphasis on well-rounded ability rather than pure driving experience on track.

RyanR3KC said:

I'm curious how rough the ride is compared to a 5th Gen Z/28 since they roughly use the same suspension technology. I've driven the Z/28...it can be rough depending on what PTM mode you have her in. This ZL1 1LE did what it was meant to do. Destroy tracks. The car straight out performs....and that's her purpose.

**disclaimer** Yes...I know I own a '14 1LE...I'm cross shopping the ZL1 and the GT350 right now. I'm curious..and very intrigued by both cars.

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I haven't had a ride in one - saw one at the track - they actually look much more tolerable and bada** in person than pictures.. in pictures, to me, they look gaudy - approaching Civic Type-R levels of gaudiness - but not quite there (and yes I know it's functional...still looks gaudy).

I digress..

Ride wise - if the thing rides as harsh or more than my R dampers in track mode... and that can't change. No thanks.

I didn't cross shop 350 vs Camaro - despite the completely logical reasons to do so. I just didn't see a Camaro out there I could stomach walking to in a parking lot as the owner without some level of embarrassment, no offense. This one - yeah I could see owning it - if it was streetable. I'd never want to drive my R on the street if the dampers were always in track mode - and this thing, from the reviews, sounds like it's even worse than that perhaps and full time.

MrCincinnati said:

I haven't had a ride in one - saw one at the track - they actually look much more tolerable and bada** in person than pictures.. in pictures, to me, they look gaudy - approaching Civic Type-R levels of gaudiness - but not quite there (and yes I know it's functional...still looks gaudy).

I digress..

Ride wise - if the thing rides as harsh or more than my R dampers in track mode... and that can't change. No thanks.

I didn't cross shop 350 vs Camaro - despite the completely logical reasons to do so. I just didn't see a Camaro out there I could stomach walking to in a parking lot as the owner without some level of embarrassment, no offense. This one - yeah I could see owning it - if it was streetable. I'd never want to drive my R on the street if the dampers were always in track mode - and this thing, from the reviews, sounds like it's even worse than that perhaps and full time.

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hehe..."level of embarrassment," I don't subscribe to the fanboyisms...it's a zero sum argument. I do like that the ZL1 1LE is purpose built for the track and that Al Oppenheiser is not afraid to say it. "Caveat Emptor" right? ZL1 1LE is just a little out of my price range...plus I think I'd like the ZL1 just fine. Reading about all the hoops and ADM horror stories people went through to get their R's was just a complete turn off for me. how would you compare driving a GT350 to a 350R?

I've gotten plenty of wheel time behind my friend's Boss 302 and I liked the character of the car. I was looking at the Boss before I bought my 1LE when I was in Afghanistan. So for me right now...the total package, durability and engine of the ZL1 at that price point is amazing. I'll find out next weekend when I test drive a Gt350.

RyanR3KC said:

hehe..."level of embarrassment," I don't subscribe to the fanboyisms... how would you compare driving a GT350 to a 350R?

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Definitely not a fanboy - I just think Camaros are kinda corny.

No clue as far as the comparison between driving GT350 and GT350R - my R is the only 350 I've ever driven. Come to think of it... it's the only Mustang I've ever driven.

Zitrosounds said:

I watched Randy's MTBDC hot lap of the ZL1 1LE and when he closed the segment out I was not surprised. I went back and watched his commentary of the R's hot lap and I am further convinced that faster is not always better and the R is the better drivers car. I have attached the queued videos of Randy's commentary of both cars for you to compare. Additionally I will add this year's 2nd place car, the 718 Cayman S. Compare both the 2nd place cars review and you will see that faster is not always better.

What do you think?

Enjoy!

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Thanks for posting that! I actually watched those videos this week (including watching the GT350R lap again). My understanding is the ZL1-1LE just wasn't special enough to place higher.

I am glad that the Camaro is such a capable track car, and that the standard is set so high. Kudos to GM for such an impressive effort. I hope Ford's next offering is even better, and we can look forward to the next halo mustang turning the tables!

All that said, however, I have come to the realization that, bragging rights aside, there is no practical difference between the cars for me. These cars are ALL way overkill for he street anyways, and I know I will never get to that level of performance on a track where the difference will be that apparent. I love the way my gt350 looks, sounds, and drives, and I am content with that. Maybe someday I will want something different, but I doubt I will even be looking the next mustang as a replacement for the gt350 (barring any unfortunate circumstances).

Praehotec said:

I am glad that the Camaro is such a capable track car, and that the standard is set so high. Kudos to GM for such an impressive effort. I hope Ford's next offering is even better, and we can look forward to the next halo mustang turning the tables!

All that said, however, I have come to the realization that, bragging rights aside, there is no practical difference between the cars for me. These cars are ALL way overkill for he street anyways, and I know I will never get to that level of performance on a track where the difference will be that apparent. I love the way my gt350 looks, sounds, and drives, and I am content with that. Maybe someday I will want something different, but I doubt I will even be looking the next mustang as a replacement for the gt350 (barring any unfortunate circumstances).

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I don't think Ford will ever keep up with GM as long as GM has the Corvette. With the ZR1 coming and the rear engine Corvette, the game will be changed forever.

roygriffin2020 said:

I don't think Ford will ever keep up with GM as long as GM has the Corvette. With the ZR1 coming and the rear engine Corvette, the game will be changed forever.

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Lol and the Ford GT????

RyanR3KC said:

How many people here have actually seen a ZL1 1LE in the flesh or driven it? This is another bench racing magazine thread. Even MotorTrend judges couldn't agree. Best quote from the story:

"The Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 1LE’s fourth-place finish was a contentious one. We could agree on power and grip. The fact that all 650 of the Camaro’s horsepower is usable without instantly vaporizing the rear rubber is an engineering feat. But some of us maintained that a car couldn’t win Best Driver’s Car if you didn’t want to drive it every day. “I’ve probably lost all my fillings, and my kidneys are bruised,” Derek lamented, to which Jonny retorted: “Some judges thought the ride was too harsh on their way to Pilates class, but who cares? Finishing fourth is a failure of democracy.”

I'm curious how rough the ride is compared to a 5th Gen Z/28 since they roughly use the same suspension technology. I've driven the Z/28...it can be rough depending on what PTM mode you have her in. This ZL1 1LE did what it was meant to do. Destroy tracks. The car straight out performs....and that's her purpose.

**disclaimer** Yes...I know I own a '14 1LE...I'm cross shopping the ZL1 and the GT350 right now. I'm curious..and very intrigued by both cars.

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They absolutely did agree to place it 4th. This thread is about the transcendence of the automobile as a whole and not just a tool, a car you want to drive every day.The ZL1 1Le is just a tool as is the ACR, track demolishers.The Z28 and the 1le use similar DSSV tech but the 1le shock/struts are hard mounted to the chassis. BIG difference.

I owned a track pack GT350 and now own an R. Umm!.....yeah. Randy Pobst said it best, if you are shopping for a GT350, "dont drive the R first."

I've tracked both a GT350 and a '17 SS 1LE. They are very similar from a vehicle dynamics perspective. The 1LE had quite a bit more torque but the GT350 had more top end and as such a big advantage where things open up. The big difference between the two is that the Mustang is very mod friendly (as usual) underneath and the Camaro is a nightmare. I spent hours disassembling the 1LE along with George from MGW in preparation for a shifter to be prototyped. All I can say is that if you don't plan on mods such as a 1-piece driveshaft, a shifter, etc, you'll be fine. I'm itching for a ZL1 1LE but I know right now that if I got one there are certain things I wouldn't be doing to it that I would normally do to a Mustang.

Doesn't the SS also kinda sacrifice some potential durability for weight reduction too? I know Chevy did a TON of cross drilling of parts to get weight down like suspension links and even an aluminum diff (if I remember right).

Epiphany said:

I've tracked both a GT350 and a '17 SS 1LE. They are very similar from a vehicle dynamics perspective. The 1LE had quite a bit more torque but the GT350 had more top end and as such a big advantage where things open up. The big difference between the two is that the Mustang is very mod friendly (as usual) underneath and the Camaro is a nightmare. I spent hours disassembling the 1LE along with George from MGW in preparation for a shifter to be prototyped. All I can say is that if you don't plan on mods such as a 1-piece driveshaft, a shifter, etc, you'll be fine. I'm itching for a ZL1 1LE but I know right now that if I got one there are certain things I wouldn't be doing to it that I would normally do to a Mustang.

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You're the first person I've seen complain about the transmission on Camaros. I'll have to check Camaro6 and see what they're saying. as far as modding the new Camaros I've only seen/heard good things. NicKey Performance has their project car build going now. They did some work on my 1LE. They're great people. I'd go back to them again.

**Disclaimer** last Saturday I pulled the trigger and traded my 2014 Camaro 1LE for a 2017 Lightning Blue GT350. This Shelby is an amazing car. Honestly, the only Mustang I'd ever consider purchasing...I'm not even sure I'd call this Mustang. I rode in a friend's 2016 5.0 and this Cobra is vastly different.

Zitrosounds said:

Lol and the Ford GT????

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Apples and Oranges...anyone can see that.