Meth Injected and Whipple Charged

This week I purchased a Snow Performance Stage 2 Methanol injection kit and installed it on the car. I currently have their #5 325ml nozzle on it, due to a shipping error. I will be putting on the #6 625ml nozzle next week when it arrives and dropping down to a 3.5" pulley (currently running 3.625"). So far I am pretty stoked with the kit as when it sprays it is dropping my IAT's fairly quickly. Should see even better results once I have the bigger nozzle installed. It is a fairly straight forward installation and a really nice kit. bought VP M1 Methanol and mixed it 50/50 with distilled water since my Boost Juice from Snow did not arrive yet. The Boost Juice is pre-mixed 50/50. The car will going on the dyno on the 27th, so I will update when I have the results.

install looks clean bro! cant wait to see results for the 27th. torque will go up huge.

Good install but I always plumbed my meth after the TB.

z06psi said:

Good install but I always plumbed my meth after the TB.

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Snow's instructions are to mount it either before or after. After the TB requires a solenoid upgrade.

Solid work Mike, cant wait to see your results. I've been running Meth for a couple months now since The ACES debacle. My knock with meth is gonzo and seeing 18-20 total spark advance at max cylinder pressures 3.5" pulley. The meth is doing its work for octane boost, but the jury is still out on weather power has increased. I'll also be hitting the Dyno just a couple days after you on the 30th.

Do you plan on testing meth against and Octane booster on the Dyno?

Nice! Been looking at this kit mainly in hopes it will lower the positive knock that I'm seeing with 91 octane. I'm hopeful this will be a solution. Curious if it's required to have a different calibration written to account for the meth, or if the current tune just adapts?

Also curious on how closely the snow controller's boost gauge matches your mechanical gauge.

Damn Mike always finding ways to spend my money... Lol cant wait to see great results.

Bartly said:

Nice! Been looking at this kit mainly in hopes it will lower the positive knock that I'm seeing with 91 octane. I'm hopeful this will be a solution. Curious if it's required to have a different calibration written to account for the meth, or if the current tune just adapts?

Also curious on how closely the snow controller's boost gauge matches your mechanical gauge.

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I've talked with Dustin on this and he it's common for knwlwge that the best way Tom handle meth is when fuel and spark can be adjusted as meth is being sprayed. That is optimal for power gains. The current calibration would have some ability to adjust for fueling the in the short term fuel trims, wether it's fast enough to react is the question, Dustin's not sure and I've not fuller tested this. I can say that with my 9gph nozzle and 50/50 my lambda/AF doesn't change much it stays at about .75 which is slightly rich but not a point off. The knock strategy does add timing to the octane limits of the fuel so timing is there for sure. I'm hoping to see positive results on the Dyno, but Dustin isn't convinced meth alone without a complete strategy to compensate will add power.

Roh92cp said:

I've talked with Dustin on this and he it's common for knwlwge that the best way Tom handle meth is when fuel and spark can be adjusted as meth is being sprayed. That is optimal for power gains. The current calibration would have some ability to adjust for fueling the in the short term fuel trims, wether it's fast enough to react is the question, Dustin's not sure and I've not fuller tested this. I can say that with my 9gph nozzle and 50/50 my lambda/AF doesn't change much it stays at about .75 which is slightly rich but not a point off. The knock strategy does add timing to the octane limits of the fuel so timing is there for sure. I'm hoping to see positive results on the Dyno, but Dustin isn't convinced meth alone without a complete strategy to compensate will add power.

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Thanks for the info. Auto correct made deciphering that kind of interesting, not sure who Tom handle is, lol. I take it Dustin is one of the Whipple guys? If I understood that correctly you are on the Whipple tune still and it is managing your lambda pretty good, but from what you describe a custom calibration would be the way to optimize any power gains from the meth injection. Also sounds like with your existing calibration you can see that the timing is advancing and knock has diminished to negative values?

I'm not interested in any additional power currently, just hate stepping on the gas knowing that my knock sensors are hitting +3- +6 most times I'm at WOT. Mainly was wondering how my existing calibration (on my Procharged car) would react if I installed the snow kit, again thanks for the info. I Should have known better thinking 91 octane would be enough to keep the knock sensors happy with the compression of this motor.

Bartly said:

Thanks for the info. Auto correct made deciphering that kind of interesting, not sure who Tom handle is, lol. I take it Dustin is one of the Whipple guys? If I understood that correctly you are on the Whipple tune still and it is managing your lambda pretty good, but from what you describe a custom calibration would be the way to optimize any power gains from the meth injection. Also sounds like with your existing calibration you can see that the timing is advancing and knock has diminished to negative values?

I'm not interested in any additional power currently, just hate stepping on the gas knowing that my knock sensors are hitting +3- +6 most times I'm at WOT. Mainly was wondering how my existing calibration (on my Procharged car) would react if I installed the snow kit, again thanks for the info. I Should have known better thinking 91 octane would be enough to keep the knock sensors happy with the compression of this motor.

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Will the real Tom Handle please stand up:lol: Woops! Dustin Whipple is the CEO of Whipple I use the Ngauge to monitor knock and timing and all other parameters, it works well. 91 octane is shit and 93 not much better, but its what we have. You can only make so much power on these fuels as the octane threshold is maxed out quickly with added cylinder pressures with adding boost over base kits. +6 knock would scar the hell out of me and I know for a fact on the Whipple cal after +4 the knock goes unchecked as the cal can only pull or add 4* Not sure anyone does a meth calibration for these cars maybe PBD:shrug:

Roh92cp said:

Will the real Tom Handle please stand up:lol: Woops! Dustin Whipple is the CEO of Whipple I use the Ngauge to monitor knock and timing and all other parameters, it works well. 91 octane is shit and 93 not much better, but its what we have. You can only make so much power on these fuels as the octane threshold is maxed out quickly with added cylinder pressures with adding boost over base kits. +6 knock would scar the hell out of me and I know for a fact on the Whipple cal after +4 the knock goes unchecked as the cal can only pull or add 4* Not sure anyone does a meth calibration for these cars maybe PBD:shrug:

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Yeah 91 sure isn't cutting it for me for sure. So now the million dollar question... we spoke before about the amount of KR you had seen, I can't recall if it was in the 2-3 range, wondering if you ever saw 4? You said above your KR was gonzo, I'm just trying to gauge what adding the meth/water system would do for someone like me who's is seeing 6 KR. I know it's hard to predict, just wanting to be hopeful it will get me closer to zero, heck maybe even some negative KR at WOT. Hopefully not just wishful thinking on my part. Also wondering what size tank you ordered and if you have already been thinking of a bigger tank? Sounds like to tank that comes with the kit is good for at least a full tank of gas, so probably would be better to be in the habit of topping it off at every fill up, not sure which would be better, a tank that you get in the habit of ripping off at every fill up or one that you check at every 3-4 fill ups. Anyway, thanks again for all the sharing of info. Seems like nobody on the planet want to talk about + KR values, I appreciate your sharing.

Also, from what I am reading I am leaning towards the direction of just letting my existing tune adapt to the meth/water injection and not change the tune to optimize for it. That whole safety thing in case the water/meth stops flowing my engine will just run like it has been on this tune. Only side effect I see from reading is it might run a little on the rich side?

A friend just added that same kit ( Kenny Bell blower )... Killed both of his front o2 sensors in a short time .. He pulled the system off and added new o2 and went with a E85 tune ..

if i were using meth i would add for cooling only--if your ace for removing knock there's a problem with the tune and its just a band aid.

yes there are fail safes in systems and some work very well. but an everyday street car i wouldn't tune with meth as a fuel.

In a race car or race application, i would use meth as a fuel and increased timing as a race car. where it gets looked after periodically. just my opinion of course.

Bartly said:

Yeah 91 sure isn't cutting it for me for sure ...

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Procharger advertises 91 octane. Are you sure the KR numbers are correct? Does CHT / IAT2 make any difference ?

This guy picked up some gains with a meth kit. Here's a read for you:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...-a-blown-and-meth-injected-coyote-powerplant/