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Given the run around from a popular tuner for our cars

Synyster06Gates

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He did no such thing, this is not like making a promise, or giving a warranty on his labor etc., you are conflating two different issues and painting them both as some sort of "word is your bond issue", this is just a simple classified ad sale that fell through. I get what you are saying I just think anyone, be it a vendor or customer should be able to make their own choice to not purchase or trade for something if they want to, if the vendor decided after the fact that they cannot afford to give away the labor at that time, they should have the right to back out.

This is a silly thread with no substance.
Welching on a deal is a shitty thing to do - whether it's a vendor or random from the internet. If you have a written agreement to accept something you should be responsible for completing your end of the deal, especially after telling the seller to remove their ad.

A lot of forums will actually ban those who back out a deal after there's a written agreement.
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nedim1991

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The length that 5.0yote is going to to try to discredit OP's post, or at best discourage this type of posting, makes it pretty hard to believe that he's an impartial or objective party in this case. He's gotta have a dog in the race.

On to his argument of it's a free market and that tuner shouldn't have to justify himself and so on and so on.....in a vacuum, that could almost be true. The fact of the matter in real life is that PR is everything in a free market. Why do you think large companies spend so much on either internal PR departments or third party campaigns/consulting? As soon as you're doing something for hire or profit/money, you're representing a personal brand. For that reason, this tuner in this situation is held to a higher standard than you or I. What would for you or I simply be a "douchey move", could possibly and seemingly rightfully be a costly PR blunder for this tuner's business.
 
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Ronstar

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Here are the emails edited with only contact info removed:

On Apr 20, 2017, at 10:14 AM, wrote:


Hi ........,

This is Ronstar, one of your customers and the guy with the 3.73 diff to trade for labor..

Let me know when we can talk about bringing my car to you etc.

my cell ..............


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On Apr 20, 2017, at 2:32 PM, ..................... wrote:

What are you looking to have done? Need to see if it is equal value to the rear differential.



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On Apr 21, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Ronstar wrote:


Install my etc intercooler, charge pipes, bov, mishimoto radiator and radiator hoses. Its all pretty much while your there with the front bumper off. Thats all.

Sent from my iPhone


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On Apr 21, 2017, at 5:11 PM, ............................. wrote:
Intercooler is about 2 hours, Radiator is about 1.5-2 hours because the draining of the coolant is a pain in these cars. Grill is about .5 hour.

We charge $130.00 per hour for labor, so that totals out to about $585.00 + Tax.


I don’t really need the differential, it would be cool to have it around for a customers car possibly later down the line so it is only worth about $400.00 to me. I paid $350.00 shipped for mine from eBay. It is probably going to sit around for a bit.




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On Apr 21, 2017, at 5:40 PM, Ronstar wrote:


Well when you said trade it for labor and you saw the amount i was selling it for, to me it seemed that you were ok with it at price. You said for me to take it down from listing. Which I did from all the sites i posted it at. I have no problem paying the tax and extra over the price that i assumed you and I agreed upon which was to me, 500.00 credit in labor. I feel thats it not fair if that wasn't your intention and wished you had said something before.

Sent from my iPhone




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On Apr 22, 2017, at 7:20 PM, ............ wrote:
Don’t recall the price you had it for, and I said I would trade it for labor but didn’t say what I was offering for a “price” in exchange for labor.

I’m ok with it either way, but I will record hours during the install of the parts in question and charge you accordingly, then apply a credit towards the bill.

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On Apr 22, 2017, at 8:30 PM, Ronstar wrote:


Ok. Sounds good. Let me know when we can arrange the trip. My noise from the rear us annoying and concerning.

Sent from my iPhone


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On Apr 24, 2017, at 9:20 AM, ................... wrote:
I won’t be able to do anything until the end of May we are pretty booked up.

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On Apr 25, 2017, at 4:10 PM, Ronstar wrote:


Ok so change of plans. I am returning the mishimoto radiator and silicone hoses and am going to see about getting the ford pp radiator for the ecoboost. Saw so many issues with this radiator I'm not trusting it.

Sent from my iPhone

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On Apr 25, 2017, at 8:42 PM, .............................. wrote:
We have never had an issue with it, but if you think you are going to have an issue never hurts to be sure.

What is the reason for upgrading the radiator in the first place, you having issues?

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On Apr 25, 2017, at 8:47 PM, Ronstar wrote:


No issues but i have the base model and wanted a better radiator due to texas heat. So you have had the mishimoto radiator in these mustangs without issue? Reason i was thinking of returning it is because i just saw this guy ...... on the forums have his fail. And i need it reliable but want to upgrade my car for better street performance and usually in my experience you usually want to upgrade supporting mods as well and i thought cooling would be important to keep timing better during the texas hot months.

Sent from my iPhone

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On Apr 26, 2017, at 12:51 AM, ................. wrote:
That guy .... on the forums is a huge idiot, it wouldn’t surprise me if he broke it during install then decided to write a 400 page essay about it. I have that dude blocked on there, so annoying.

I have 2 of them in cars that have made over 600whp in the past, and now are 500whp daily drivers, no issues. With any product there is the possibility of having issues, that is just part of aftermarket components.

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On May 19, 2017, at 2:02 PM, Ronstar wrote:


Hi .........


You mentioned end of May. We're two weeks out. Also i went ahead and returned the radiator and hoses. But i would also like to buy from you the valessatech big mouth and maybe hood stands and get those installed at the same time with car there.


Let me know what day you have in mind as i need to put in for the days off from work.

Sent from my iPhone

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On May 19, 2017, at 2:05 PM, ............................. wrote:
Ronstar,

I still have a few cars here I need to get out that are priority right now. At this point labor for a trade just isn’t necessary on my end, I have way too much going on and the drag car is getting turned into a roll race/street car so the lower gear will never end up in it.


If you want a quote on install of everything and want to schedule it in June let me know exactly everything you need done and I will quote it out for you.


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On May 19, 2017, at 2:09 PM, Ronstar wrote:


No thats ok. Ill contact someone else to put up the diff for sale again. Ill find another installer for the intercooler grill and charge pipes.


Thanks for wasting my time.

Sent from my iPhone

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Friday, May 19, 2017 7:03 PM, ................ Wrote:


Wasting your time wasn’t the case, I offered you to trade labor to the value the diff is worth to me. Because paid labor customers are filling up the shop it wouldn’t be fair to you to keep holding you out. Realistically the soonest we can schedule this would be July, and I don’t think you want to wait for July to get this done. I can USE the diff some time down the road just not right now. It isn’t pressing that I have it so I can’t justify kicking customers away from their deadline for something I don’t need currently.

I’ll gladly get you on the schedule, you can pay for the installation and if you still have the diff when I’m in need later this year I will reach out to you first to purchase it.
 

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Ronstar

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So I guess I'm not a paying customer even if I am using partial payment with parts credit??? WTF.. LOL
 

foghat

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So I guess I'm not a paying customer even if I am using partial payment with parts credit??? WTF.. LOL
Thing is, if he doesn't need the diff right now, the 'parts credit' isn't worth near as much to him as a customer paying all cash.

I get that it sucks for you, but it sounds like assumptions were made on both ends. I can understand why this guy would not want to turn away paying customers to work on your vehicle if most of the payment is going to be a part he may need at some future point.

All this said, if I were him, I'd likely 'bite the bullet' and get you hooked-up. Optics if nothing else.
 
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foghat

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The length that 5.0yote is going to to try to discredit OP's post, or at best discourage this type of posting, makes it pretty hard to believe that he's an impartial or objective party in this case. He's gotta have a dog in the race.

On to his argument of it's a free market and that tuner shouldn't have to justify himself and so on and so on.....in a vacuum, that could almost be true. The fact of the matter in real life is that PR is everything in a free market. Why do you think large companies spend so much on either internal PR departments or third party campaigns/consulting? As soon as you're doing something for hire or profit/money, you're representing a personal brand. For that reason, this tuner in this situation is held to a higher standard than you or I. What would for you or I simply be a "douchey move", could possibly and seemingly rightfully be a costly PR blunder for this tuner's business.
So because the tuner/vendor is making a PR blunder (which whether he is or not is up for debate since, yes, we do have this post in this very less traveled sub-forum, but no firm name) 5.0yote is somehow 'related' to the tuner because he is stated the guy had every right to back out of classified ad 'sale'?

If this isn't the true, I had should have kept the names and numbers from all the people who have burned me on my Kijiji ad sales. I could sue, I could be rich!
 

nedim1991

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He really really should have bit the bullet, as a businessman, pure potential profit and loss. I'm not even gonna bring anyone's personal integrity into this. That $600 labor he saved could end up costing him a whole lot more than that in lost business through negative word-of-mouth advertising. Once again, as soon as you're doing something for hire or profit, you're representing an invaluable personal brand. You're held to a higher standard, a "douchey move" can quickly become a costly blunder.

For example: I had a relatively well known and pretty impressively ever-expanding local stereo and tint shop install window tints on my car. I didn't look into whether the feature on our cars where the windows go down slightly when you open the door and back up when you close it (if there's a term for it, someone please educate me) could be disabled. As a result, I got bubbles at the bottom of the window that wouldn't go away. I went back to the shop and was completely honest about what caused the issue. What did the shop owner decide to do? Re-do the tints on the house. Was he obligated to? Absolutely not. It shows good customer service. He didn't want to risk bad word of mouth from one disgruntled customer even though he owns what's now become a well known local shop that easily generates a couple million in revenue a year. He didn't want to risk his brand being tarnished.

So because the tuner/vendor is making a PR blunder (which whether he is or not is up for debate since, yes, we do have this post in this very less traveled sub-forum, but no firm name) 5.0yote is somehow 'related' to the tuner because he is stated the guy had every right to back out of classified ad 'sale'?

If this isn't the true, I had should have kept the names and numbers from all the people who have burned me on my Kijiji ad sales. I could sue, I could be rich!
I could be completely wrong about 5.0yote and I admit that, but the number of posts and length thereof makes it hard to believe he's impartial.

I'm going down the same road with the multiple long posts, but I'm way too new and open to learn from the community to be partial. I have no dog in the fight.

The fact of how much or little traffic this post might get is completely irrelevant. All it takes is for the right (or wrong depending on how you look at it) forum member to stumble across this, a member who's constantly out at large meets and communicative/outspoken to pick this up and run with it, and this tuner's reputation could be badly tarnished. How much could that end up costing him? It's immeasurable really. There's nothing stopping anyone, hypothetically even me, from messaging the OP to get this tuner's name. Then I turn around and attend as many Mustang and non-Mustang meets of various sizes and demographics, talking until I'm blue in the face to anybody who will listen about this "terrible business". Statistically speaking from a practical perspective, if I talk to enough people, I'll get at least one person to pick it up and run with it. Maybe even put their own even more negative spin on it. Telling their friends and family and anyone who will listen. It snowballs from there. I'm not gonna do that, it's not my style, but man oh man somebody will take that as an immaculate opportunity to talk shit about this tuner. I guarantee it.
 

Slow89

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"That guy .... on the forums is a huge idiot, it wouldn’t surprise me if he broke it during install then decided to write a 400 page essay about it. I have that dude blocked on there, so annoying"


I do like how Adam straight calls "TheLion" a HUGE idiot
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TheLion

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I guess being right about shop tuners blowing holes in customers blocks in street applications makes me an idiot. I must also have also broken the radiator during the install because it didn't leak at all for six months. Sounds like somebody's got to feed his ego, such a hungry beast!

By the way, the MM radiators will over cool in street applications which I didn't anticipate, thinking the thermostat had enough bandwidth to regulate any excess cooling capacity, but that's not the case. Unless your running a very high powered setup in a hot climate, it will over cool, I had to block off 6" to prevent over cooling during winter spring and fall, only during summer was it ok. Don't have that issue with the performance pack radiator I picked up locally to replace it. My base model 1" radiator was fine for regular driving and quick bursts, but extended use I would start to see temps climb (think circuit track racing), but not so with the PP radiator so it seems to be just the right balance of extra capacity without having too much. Live and learn right?

MM confirmed they have had several customers in 4 season states have similar issues with over cooling and they are the ones who recommended blocking it off. A little searching also will reveal quite a few customers with leaking radiators from them, especially the F-150 / Power stroke Diesel guys who were upgrading their radiators for heavy duty towing applications.

Their radiators cool very well, but there seems to be some quality issues and they are over kill for street applications unless your running something extreme and in hot weather. It is what it is. I originally bought the MM radiator thinking because it was the same price, had higher cooling capacity and was all aluminum it would be more reliable and was the better buy. But it turned out I was wrong and I"m not the only one:

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/6-...04561-who-running-mishimoto-radiators-11.html

https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...lasted-me-10-days-and-now-its-leaking.792240/

http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/0...train/625257-mishimoto-radiator-problems.html

http://www.jkowners.com/forum/modified-jk-tech-dept/352113-mishimoto-radiator-leaking.html

Again I must be an idiot because there's a design issue or quality issue...what's even more hilarious is that NHEcoboost confirmed weld quality issues with his down pipe. It sounds to me like they may have some quality control issues. Sorry, I couldn't help the sarcasm because of the absurdity and childish nature of insulting a customer (me) who had an issue with a part. Really? I swear my 8 year old adopted son has more maturity than that.

I think what's really going on here is he doesn't want to believe he's using and recommending a part from a company that does have some quality issues. And because he hasn't had any issues with the particular units he's received then by golly everything MM makes must be 100% perfect. If one carefully reads the post on the issue, I also noted it did perform well in terms of cooling capacity and only recommended buying directly from them in case you do have issues so you can get warranty support.

Yes, they did finally reach out to me, I'm in the process of working with them to get a warranty replacement and I will sell the new replacement to recoup some losses, but I wasn't going to go and buy another MM radiator when the PP radiator was more optimal for my all season street application and I already had issues with their product. I needed a radiator asap the PP radiator fit the bill.

I didn't go off the rails and say everything they make is garbage, I wasn't angry, I just provided info like we all do with our experiences, but specifically bad ones. Yup, I write 400 page essays, get over it. At least cover all my bases and address all the issues and what if's.
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