More evidence the P Zero's suck..

It’s not the tire, it’s the driver

hiccup said:

Ive had my original pirellis on my gtpp for 2 1/2 yrs now..about 10,200 mi...been a decent tire but backs are gettin very low on tread..have continued to drive during the cold seasons when temps were 30°-45°...was extra careful on the wet roads so cant relate to those who lost it in the rain but the cold dry roadway even curves never got uncontrollable. Cant wait to get my contisports mounted since they get better treatment on here. Might feel like a better dd than it has been...

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That looks like the mileage I expect on my PP in 2.5 years also. I will probably move to Michelin if I'm still driving.

I've put 18,550 miles on my front P Zero Nero's, the rear had 16,700 miles on them when I had a sidewall puncture due to hurricane Harvey. I road-warrior my base GT as in spirited driving style in S-curves and Chicanes, I run coastal hwys and will eventually track my GT when the suspension setup is completed. I bought Bridgestone S-04 pole position in 255/45/18's to replace the rears, with a 280 treadwear rating. Treadwear is my designated control for my style of driving. Price point matters to me as well. My front P-Zero's aren't worn out yet but 1/2 way finished at least.

Asharus said:

the reason he tore the sidewall on all 4 tires is because he's an idiot and these PP wheels are reverse mount.

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Exactly.

They don't need to have even heard the term 'reverse mount', if they're paying attention to the distances from the flanges to the drop centers and figure that working from the 'short side' would make life a lot easier. Especially after screwing up the first one or at most after two in a row.


And thanks for the link for a separate reason. There are places where I can use that 0.7" flange height information.

Norm
(I used to mount my own tires back in the 15"/50 profile and up days)

DickR said:

Those tire mounting guys who don't think the P Zero 2 ply sidewall is strong/high quality are going to love the 1 ply PS4s sidewall.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4S

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So I should say I'm glad I got the continentals? LOL

Stock PP wheels are not reverse mount. The drop center is on the wheel face side of the wheel. Reverse mounting them may cause damage to the bead.

ricardocabesa said:

I guess SUMMER ONLY applies to 1 season,summer. Folks just don't get it. They're telling you 1 season. Believe them.
If you want a 4 or a 2.5 season tire,buy all season tires. Or snows in you live on a frozen tundra.
I've visited 48 states and driven in the winter in quite a few,so I get it. But it clearly states 1 season. So I believe them. Trying to stretch them to early Fall or late Spring is a no go. I'm not comparing them to any other tire which may work into either of those seasons. Obviously there are 2.5 season tires,as mentioned,but this thread isn't about them.

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I think you're being slightly paranoid. The problem here is more about how to describe tires intended for use in temperatures that are "warm enough" vs those that are suitable for a different or possibly wider temperature range. IOW, 'Summer' as far as tire use is concerned can't be defined that explicitly by the calendar, and even something like 'summer-like temperatures' won't get quite the same interpretation in Maine or North Dakota as it does in states that share a border with Mexico or the Gulf.

Some tires, like the G:2 Goodyear Supercars, aren't even supposed to be stored at temperatures approaching "freezing" (and absolutely did have a reputation for rapid fall-off of grip at what are really quite moderate temperatures - even low 50's F being perhaps a bit iffy). Pirelli specifically sets a warranty limit at 45°F for the P-Zero, use below that point putting all of the risk on the car owner/driver.

The MPSS, which is listed in the same 'Max Performance Summer' category as the P-Zero, has no such warning, or for that matter any warning tied to a specific temperature. But they're actually more capable at temperatures in the 30's than some all-season tires are in wet corners at any temperature (the BFG KDWS that came on my car as OE being one), and as long as temperatures are at least mid-40's you shouldn't experience delayed ABS release of lockup under braking (this can happen with temps in the 30's, particularly with track pads in the calipers). Here in the flatlands of South Jersey the MPSS is easily a full 3-season tire if you've got your wits about you at all.


Norm

Norm Peterson said:

Pirelli specifically sets a warranty limit at 45°F for the P-Zero, use below that point putting all of the risk on the car owner/driver.

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I don't know about everyone else, but under 55 or so and the loss of traction is noticeable. I can't say that my tires have ever broken loose in a turn at any temperature unless I deliberately made it happen. Granted, I know for fact it will definitely happen easier at lower temps and I've broken them loose when flooring it in third gear at 50mph on the interstate many times, but I feel like if anyone on here is saying they've lost traction at normal speeds and normal acceleration in normal road curves, they were probably pushing it harder than they think.

I've seen the term "dangerous" tossed around quite a bit, but even as low as the high 30's I've not had any issues if I'm driving it like I would in, say, an Accord, which we all should be doing when we know we've pushed the temps below what we know to be the optimum range for a summer tire.

I definitely agree with your point about Summer being a broad definition. Where I live, it can be in the low 50's in the morning in October and get up to 80. It can be 60 in January or -5. Temps are temps, regardless of the season. I think they just couldn't think of a better descriptive name.

PJR202 said:

I don't know about everyone else, but under 55 or so and the loss of traction is noticeable.

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That's a lot more like way the behavior of the GY Supercar G:2 tires was described by the guys with ZL1 Camaros. I think there might have even been some car deliveries delayed into springtime at one point.

Norm

The OEM PP tires last about 8500 miles on my car and I just replaced the rears for a second time in 2 years. The cost for 2 installed was 377 so they are inexpensive tires.

New, the tires are great but they start to degrade after several thousand miles and under 60 degrees with half tread the car is dangerous if driven recklessly. I had my car sideways at 40mph a couple of weeks ago while trying to make a yellow and it was a bit hairy to say the least. I called the tire shop the next day and ordered new OEM rubber.

Maggneto said:

The OEM PP tires last about 8500 miles on my car and I just replaced the rears for a second time in 2 years. The cost for 2 installed was 377 so they are inexpensive tires.

New the tires are great but they start to degrade after several thousand miles and under 60 degrees with half tread the car is dangerous if driven recklessly. I had my car sideways at 40mph a couple of weeks ago while trying to make a yellow and it was a bit hairy to say the least. I called the tire shop the next day and ordered new OEM rubber.

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If you got two PZ's all-in for $377 I can only guess it's because of the width. For the 275/255 package on the GT you'd be closer to $550 I think. I got my two used 275's for 300 delivered and another 25 for install, which I felt really good about..lol

FYI the OEM P Zeros have been my WINTER tire in Raleigh since I use RE-71R's during the autocross season. Both have less traction when it is cold but after 20 years of dealing with "tires are cold so watch out" with my autocross formula Ford on Hoosier slicks and with various summer tires on previous much lower power Mustang V8's cold temps are just one of the things a driver needs to keep in mind just like wet and snow/ice.

Our "real" winter car is a 97 Mustang GT with all seasons unless we need to go out in ice in which case the mounted snow tires go on.

Tires are usually a "you get what you pay for" item and everything has trade offs.

Pirelli Summer Tires

“Pirelli's warranty does not cover tires that develop compound cracking due to use in ambient temperatures below 45° Fahrenheit (7° Celsius), so the P Zero, like all summer tires, is not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.”

Yeah cold weather & rain running summer tires plus aggressive driving not a great combo guys. Don’t matter which tire your wearing. ;)

PJR202 said:

I got some Continental EC/DW's installed last night. The tread wear on the P Zero's had been super uneven in the rear on the originals, and then again on a set of lightly used replacements which were taken off last night. As the guy was taking them off I asked his opinion on why they wore so unevenly and he said it looked like they were chronically under-inflated. I kept them at 32 cold as-prescribed and he was perplexed but said the P Zero's haven't been a good tire in a long time regardless and we chalked it up to that. His counterpart agreed.

FFWD an hour and they come into the showroom and the guy says "the tires definitely just suck. When I was unmounting them the spoon on the machine tore right through the sidewall on every one of them. That doesn't happen very often on any tire."

Soooo..there ya go. I'd like to say how awesome the new tires are but I basically drove it straight from Firestone to the local Ford dealer and dropped it off for AC work so I likely won't have it back until mid/late next week.

And unfortunately I didn't get to go do a sweet burnout on the old ones yesterday. :(

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Same as me. I'm at 18,xxx miles and my rears look like I was running insane amounts of positive camber. The outside 1/3 of the tire is down to the wear bars, but the inside is still good.

Mine lasted 5k and I was not impressed at all. If they were good we all would be replacing them with factory rubber. I know nobody who bought a 2nd set. My cont dws o6 perform better in any situation period. Plus there great in COLD temps.