electric??

I don't see the big push for full electrification in such a short time. :shrug:

For one thing, the electrical infrastructure isn't there. Some places have enough trouble as it is maintaining capacity/demand currently, let alone when thousands of cars will be plugged in to charge on top of what exists.

Picture rental property owners. I'm sure they're just going to jump at the expense of installing charge units for every parking spot, not to mention upgrade the rest of their electrical services to compensate for the additional load.

I see it eventually getting there many, many, many years down the road, but less than 10 years is a pipe dream, IMO.

williamwally said:

Once battery weights come down more people will start to appreciate the instant torque and throttle response.

Click to expand...

Spoken like a true fan of the straight line. Lots of response off the line and in the first portion of throttle travel, and where what happens in the last portion of throttle travel hardly matters at all.

That tends to result in a choppy 'point and shoot' driving style rather than a smoother style that isn't nearly as likely to upset tire grip.


Norm

Actually not at all. My handful (10-20) motorcycle track days actually fuels my enthusiasm in cars and now electric vehicles.

The throttle response, as everyone describes it, is absolutely instant and linear. Ie you can, at any speed, at any engine (motor?) rpm, access 1%-100% of maximum engine torque, which is basically constant, depending only on throttle position. No only torque down low, or only power up high, or lag before turbo spool etc. No real need to know your power band, be in the correct gear to take advantage of power band etc.

While I haven't ridden any of the above mentioned motorcycles, the reviews are intriguing.
Now I'm not saying all of the 'benefits' of electric drive are good; I like shifting gears and I like the building powerbands of sporting ICE engines, but I can see the positives electric motors can bring to motorsports.

[ame]

<-talking about race wins, top speed runs, and has riding review and race footage.

Now, an electric motorcycle is intriguing based on what I've seen and read.

I know I'd like to have one in the bike stable to play with.

.

Norm Peterson said:

Spoken like a true fan of the straight line. Lots of response off the line and in the first portion of throttle travel, and where what happens in the last portion of throttle travel hardly matters at all.

That tends to result in a choppy 'point and shoot' driving style rather than a smoother style that isn't nearly as likely to upset tire grip.


Norm

Click to expand...

Norm I understand your love for high displacement engines, but the fact of the matter is, ICE is only going to last so long. Fuel is finite, parts will be at some point as well. We will all learn to love electric vehicles. Plus, they can be made faster than any ICE vehicle out there and can handle better given the correct battery location and suspension equipment. The only thing you will be missing is sound and a manual tranny since electrics right now only have a single speed.

I'll admit, I'd miss driving a manual as well. I want to keep 1 manual car with me until it's my time to go.

There has to be infrastructure to support a huge shift to EV cars. Imagine how Kw usage will go up at night when everyone gets home from work and plugs in. Our electrical grid is strained now as it is, especially when a heat wave comes along. We need more power generation capacity. Lithium mining is ramping up, but how much of it is in the ground? It is a finite source like oil. If the sodium battery becomes a viable alternative, it will be a game changer.

Ebm said:

Norm I understand your love for high displacement engines, but the fact of the matter is, ICE is only going to last so long. Fuel is finite, parts will be at some point as well. We will all learn to love electric vehicles. Plus, they can be made faster than any ICE vehicle out there and can handle better given the correct battery location and suspension equipment.

Click to expand...

I think I'm being slightly mis-read. Although engine displacements of 5.0 liters probably are "high displacement" in today's context, that'll always be only a medium displacement number to me given that I was driving in the 1960's (for me, "high displacement" only gets started at 7.5-ish liters or 454/455/460 cubic inches).

That aside, what I'm really a fan of is high-revving medium-displacement engines. And light, nimble (dare I add 'simple' here?) cars more than heavier more powerful ones.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've posted that I flat-out don't care what's faster than whatever I have chosen to own and drive (or in this case what I might ever choose to drive). I could retire . . . . oh, wait . . . anyway, the point remains that promising an EV to be faster doesn't win any points here. Faster off the line is a completely wasted sales pitch if you have no interest in winning stoplight "races" and don't drag race.

Time will tell if a 4000+ lb EV will handle by any description other than "ponderously". Having relatively less roll than an ICE-powered car at the same lateral g's isn't the same thing as "good handling".

The only thing you will be missing is sound and a manual tranny since electrics right now only have a single speed.

Click to expand...

Those are both bigger sacrifices than I care to make for any of the cars I might ever own. I enjoy driving the way I've settled into it too much to want to be disconnected from it, even if all I'm doing is driving a mile to the store for a quart of milk.


Last time around, the mrs didn't want anything to do with automatic transmissions, let alone a transmission with only one forward gear. I don't think that's changed even though she doesn't drive nearly as much as she used to.


Norm

.

Norm Peterson said:

I think I'm being slightly mis-read. Although engine displacements of 5.0 liters probably are "high displacement" in today's context, that'll always be only a medium displacement number to me given that I was driving in the 1960's (for me, "high displacement" only gets started at 7.5-ish liters or 454/455/460 cubic inches).

That aside, what I'm really a fan of is high-revving medium-displacement engines. And light, nimble (dare I add 'simple' here?) cars more than heavier more powerful ones.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I've posted that I flat-out don't care what's faster than whatever I have chosen to own and drive (or in this case what I might ever choose to drive). I could retire . . . . oh, wait . . . anyway, the point remains that promising an EV to be faster doesn't win any points here. Faster off the line is a completely wasted sales pitch if you have no interest in winning stoplight "races" and don't drag race.

Time will tell if a 4000+ lb EV will handle by any description other than "ponderously". Having relatively less roll than an ICE-powered car at the same lateral g's isn't the same thing as "good handling".



Those are both bigger sacrifices than I care to make for any of the cars I might ever own. I enjoy driving the way I've settled into it too much to want to be disconnected from it, even if all I'm doing is driving a mile to the store for a quart of milk.


Last time around, the mrs didn't want anything to do with automatic transmissions, let alone a transmission with only one forward gear. I don't think that's changed even though she doesn't drive nearly as much as she used to.


Norm

Click to expand...

With safety and emissions concerns, vehicles will only get heavier. Yet, with all the added weight, they get even more efficient. The days of 1990s Honda CRXs and Mazda Miatas are behind us. I'm also a fan of lighter, more nimble cars, but I prefer a flatter torque curve where power is concentrated in the low rpm range(think diesels) and it all comes on at once. There is nothing like that feeling of having everything kick in at once. Puts a smile on the face and fills the veins with adrenaline. I understand our differences in cars could be because of different time periods we grew up in or just a different interest. Either way, it's a great time to be alive and be a car enthusiast. So many different flavors, the uniqueness of all those flavors, etc.

For the most part, technology doesn't go backwards, it continues to advance at a pretty rapid pace. There is no doubt in my mind EVs will come out that can handle the twisties with ease. Look at what Tesla has done, look at the new NSX(not all electric, but still). If you can dream it, it can most likely be done.

I also understand you aren't worried about the fastest car. I'm not either. You know what I drive. I honestly like taking twisties, mountain roads, anything with some nice curves( ;) ) a lot better than drag/straight lining. But that almighty hp number also sells cars. You can look on this forum and see how many people are always after the latest and greatest. Always striving to spend that extra few grand and make their American Stallion the fastest out there. Competition man. Everybody delves in it from time to time. Competition is making better, more efficient vehicles. Competition brings out the best(and worst) in people. The Beatles needed the Rolling Stones. Even Diane Sawyer needed Katie Couric. Will you be my Katie Couric Norm?

Norm Peterson said:

Faster off the line is a completely wasted sales pitch if you have no interest in winning stoplight "races" and don't drag race.

Click to expand...

I hear ya, and that is the case with the electric cars right now, fast but big and saddled with weight. The reason I posted the above video's of electric bikes beating ICE bikes in track situations; is to show that it's going to be possible soon (5-10 yrs?) to make electric drive cars that can match or beat their ICE counterparts on track/back-roads.

I realize its very apples to oranges, but it does show what may be possible IMO.

williamwally said:

I hear ya, and that is the case with the electric cars right now, fast but big and saddled with weight. The reason I posted the above video's of electric bikes beating ICE bikes in track situations; is to show that it's going to be possible soon (5-10 yrs?) to make electric drive cars that can match or beat their ICE counterparts on track/back-roads.

I realize its very apples to oranges, but it does show what may be possible IMO.

Click to expand...

One thing that excites me about electric cars is the flexibility of design. Battery packs as well as electric motor(s) can be situated down low for excellent center of gravity. Also the battery array can be designed for optimal weight distribution. And the instant torque, wow. But gosh, I just can't stand the thought of a car that sounds like a refrigerator running.