Well, there does seem to be that happening for sure on this site. But aside from that, if that car was made with the options mentioned, my point was it would not have "snob appeal" but would handle very close to the same with the 8k motor at less cost. So that maybe the only difference is the snob appeal. Fair enough?
Then what are the "units"?Somehow the conversation shifted from NĂĽrburgring (Nordschleife) times to all track times. Point is that the Nordschleife track, despite it's popularity, is not a good gauge for measuring car capabilities, especially when the cars are going to be used on US streets and tracks. There are much better units of measure.
This post will probably offend you, but I'm not trying to with it. I'm just trying to get out the other side of exactly what most of us are trying to say.
I'm a so so golfer like most. I have a set of decent clubs. I'm sure I could pick up a Golf magazine and find all sorts of stats saying why I should get this club over this one etc. In the end though it obviously wouldn't turn me into a Jordan Spieth. I'd still be the same shitty golfer with the "better" clubs and should just keep the ones that feel good to me so I can learn better and practice more to become better. There is definitely some of that, but the GT350 does have the completely different front end from the A-pillar forward so that would be hard to mod. I personally liked a lot of the regular GTs I test drove, but found them a bit too squishy in the suspension area and coming from an M4 a bit down on overall punch in the motor department. Before the GT350 came out to dealers, I seriously thought about dumping my M4 for a manual PP GT I also look at ILE SS Camaros
Nordschleife time is a unit of measure.
Minn, I couldn't agree more.
Again, I don't disagree with you logical guys on your opinion of the GT350 and why so many love it. I've had highly regarded naturally aspirated cars too, so I get the different feeling of engagement. One being the C6Z06. I actually happen to be a guy that can appreciate what both types of cars offer. I actually don't think I have to take my ZL1 to a road course to have the opinion of it that I do. Your opinion is perfectly logical. You have to admit that many if the people responding in this thread had no intent of real debate, just GM or Camaro bashing. If one hasn't been in the new ZL1, they really have no idea of the leap forward it is. It's like saying the GT350 is only a glorified Mustang GT. They're both so much more than the lesser models in their respective lineups. And funny you mention the 0-60. I think GM advertises 3.5 seconds. I got 3.7 on my second try just playing around and launching at a very low 1500 rpm. The car really is a joy to launch. The electronic diff and the tires just don't let go. I'm positive I can best the advertised time. That's the thing I do appreciate about this car. It truly is what they said it would be. A triple threat. It really is at home on the drag strip, the road course, or the street. That's the appeal to me, just like the minimalist factor appeals to R owners. I've agreed with many of your points long ago. I'm mainly just trash talking at this point.This post will probably offend you, but I'm not trying to with it. I'm just trying to get out the other side of exactly what most of us are trying to say.
I get what you are saying, I really do, but you do have to realize this is a car forum for the GT350 so what did you expect? When people came on my other M3/4 forum and were critical of that car they weren't well received either. It's just the nature of things and the internet in general.
You admittedly do not have any track experience and have stated part of the reason you got the ZL1 is because it had the A10 tranny and other options. To a lot of us the GT350 is the perfect blend of an old school driving experience with just enough modern tech (mag ride etc) to make it a truly unique driving experience in a sea of automatic/DCT boosted cars.
So, it is a joy to drive on backroads or canyon runs and is a beast on the track. I enjoy rowing the gears going to breakfast with my family in the car going slow or just cruising. I have never had a car that was this capable while simultaneously this much fun to drive at the same time. That is why I and a lot of other people don't care if it is the fastest thing out there because it does exactly what it set out to do. I'm not saying the ZL1 isn't or can't be this as well, but I and obviously others just don't see it that way.
I'll add on one more crappy analogy since I know you love those in regards to track times and magazine testing stats.
FWIW, I find the GT350 is that great blend for me on the track. It is a lot of fun on the track and I'm comfortable enough with it that I can learn at the same time and get better. My previous DCT M4 was a handful on the track and was way more work than fun. It was also kind of blah to drive around town. That's why I've stayed with the Ford and the GT350 even though my 2016 tech pack experience sucked from a lot of different angles, but I still don't think there is anything else like the GT350 out today. So I'm giving them another chance. If I was to get a Camaro I'd probably go with a SS 1LE manual as that seems to be the closest fit/idea to the GT350 in todays current market.
Last, try this, take your car to a private stretch of road or the drag strip. Get a reliable 0-60 timer if you don't already have the performance data recorder in your car, which by the way is the only option I am jealous of. See if you can match the magazine times just doing 0-60 runs. You may be surprised as to what you find and then think about even coming close to the magazine/video lap times. Which, is why a lot of us say they are meaningless as is the marginal "performance win" you keep touting, which is true, but truly meaningless IMO.
With all due respect as well though, you cannot have the lap times both ways. You originally stood by the fact that the ZL1's times were worse than previously tested, hence proving that track conditions were nowhere near optimal on that day. You can't turn around then though and say the SS 1LE tied the R, as track conditions do not favor only certain types of cars, but affect all cars in the same manner, and thus if the ZL1 was significantly slower on that day, logic dictates the R has the capability to do substantially better as well.
Nobody is saying any of that? :shrug:
is a mystery :shrug:addle:
Genuinely curious, but what "R Snobs" are you referring too? Can you point out any single individual? I have not seen a single member on here bragging about having an R, or talking down to other members as if they were better than them.
Hear ye, hear ye! Couldn't agree more man! :cheers:This post will probably offend you, but I'm not trying to with it. I'm just trying to get out the other side of exactly what most of us are trying to say.
I get what you are saying, I really do, but you do have to realize this is a car forum for the GT350 so what did you expect? When people came on my other M3/4 forum and were critical of that car they weren't well received either. It's just the nature of things and the internet in general.
You admittedly do not have any track experience and have stated part of the reason you got the ZL1 is because it had the A10 tranny and other options. To a lot of us the GT350 is the perfect blend of an old school driving experience with just enough modern tech (mag ride etc) to make it a truly unique driving experience in a sea of automatic/DCT boosted cars.
So, it is a joy to drive on backroads or canyon runs and is a beast on the track. I enjoy rowing the gears going to breakfast with my family in the car going slow or just cruising. I have never had a car that was this capable while simultaneously this much fun to drive at the same time. That is why I and a lot of other people don't care if it is the fastest thing out there because it does exactly what it set out to do. I'm not saying the ZL1 isn't or can't be this as well, but I and obviously others just don't see it that way.
I'll add on one more crappy analogy since I know you love those in regards to track times and magazine testing stats.
FWIW, I find the GT350 is that great blend for me on the track. It is a lot of fun on the track and I'm comfortable enough with it that I can learn at the same time and get better. My previous DCT M4 was a handful on the track and was way more work than fun. It was also kind of blah to drive around town. That's why I've stayed with the Ford and the GT350 even though my 2016 tech pack experience sucked from a lot of different angles, but I still don't think there is anything else like the GT350 out today. So I'm giving them another chance. If I was to get a Camaro I'd probably go with a SS 1LE manual as that seems to be the closest fit/idea to the GT350 in todays current market.
Last, try this, take your car to a private stretch of road or the drag strip. Get a reliable 0-60 timer if you don't already have the performance data recorder in your car, which by the way is the only option I am jealous of. See if you can match the magazine times just doing 0-60 runs. You may be surprised as to what you find and then think about even coming close to the magazine/video lap times. Which, is why a lot of us say they are meaningless as is the marginal "performance win" you keep touting, which is true, but truly meaningless IMO.
Nice on the 0-60, I always found that a tough number to match the advertised ones. I think I've only done it on a couple of my cars.
Not you again. Don't you have more theories to contemplate, Mr. Unstrapped Blower? Don't take this stuff so serious. Debating rival cars has been going on for decades. My debates here have been mostly civil, except for when people like you show up late to the party and feel the need to respond to posts that you originally had nothing to do with. I made my points long ago in this thread. Just think back to your original dig at me. What was the point of it? You're the pot stirrer here.
I haven't even tried with the GT350 because I know I'll eff the launch up and I'm afraid what the number will be. :lol: The best I could do with my M4 was 4.0 and that was a DCT with launch control and better than stock tires.
Well I'll be the first to admit that years ago, I had heavy bias towards all American cars (courtesy of being a "youngin" and watching too much Jeremy Clarkson :lol
that wasn't really unfounded. Today these cars are world class, and after I helped my father spec out a Z51 Stingray, seeing the quantum leap that car made in terms of quality and aesthetics and the features offered, I was VERY impressed! If the Camaro made anywhere near the same leap, I would say it is a great success for its buyers.
It's probably as close as we'll ever get on this. What you're calling snob appeal I'd perhaps brand as 'cachet', as used in the 'prestige' sense.