altjx
GTFO_0036 | 1337 h4x3r
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2015
- Threads
- 88
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- 3,710
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- 1,527
- Location
- Atlanta, GA
- Website
- www.altonj.io
- First Name
- Alton J.
- Vehicle(s)
- 2017 Race Red GT350
- Thread starter
- #1
OK, so I'm seriously looking for some suggestions, advice, feedback, etc. whatever. I know the "OH MA GAD NEW CLUTCH AT 26K MILES?!?! SRSLY BRO?!" trolls are on their way, but I'm hoping to receive some pretty valuable feedback here.
So my GT350 is my first standard car. Before I got it I had a '15 GT vert (build thread in signature) and, right before I got the GT350, I had spent countless hours researching, watching videos, etc., just trying to form a list of best practices for driving a manual transmission car. Rev matching, not riding the clutch, etc. Of course I ran into a lot of debates and all, but over time I just started forming my own theory based on how the car feels -- making sure the drive is as smooth as possible, especially downshifting.
At about 19k miles, I started noticing a few weird things going on with the car. When I go wide open throttle (shifting even at 6K RPMs), the following symptoms start to develop:
Now mind you I drive this car a lot, however I don't run it all day every day, just like 2-3 times over 2 days I'll go wide open like merging onto the interstate and then back to normal speeds. As far as mods, for the most part I just have full exhaust and a tune. After this issue started occurring more frequently, I decided to take it to Ford. We flashed it back to stock and reproduced the same issue on the stock tune. They had me do a few tests, like try taking off in 4th, 5th, and 6th gear, and my car did NOT stall, indicating the clutch is slipping. A friend also suggested it may be the clutch. My friend also suggested that he heard the clutch slipping in my exhaust video, although to me it's just the tires spinning.
Anyways, here are a few "habits" that I have:
Curious of any feedback.
UPDATE (10/04/2017):
So I took my car to Ford a few weeks ago to get it diagnosed, and after about an hour or two and some tests, they determined that the clutch may have been slipping. According to Ford's articles for the techs (they showed it to me), the clutch is slipping if the car does not stall while trying to take off in 4th gear under 2K RPMs. In my case, I was able to take off in 6th gear without the car stalling.
Took my car into Ford to get a brand new clutch installed and I put about 500 miles on the car before trying to go wide open throttle again and reproduce the issue. Well, the the issue returned. So now they're getting Ford engineers involved to try figuring out what's going on. I have to drop it off on this upcoming Friday (10/06/2017).
UPDATE (10/06/2017):
Ok, so quick update. I went to Ford today, flashed back to stock per their request (again), and they hooked up their monitoring stuff. Apparently Ford engineers wanted to data log the car themselves. From what the tech was able to gather initially after the session, the computer's desired RPM was completely different (and always different) from the actual RPM. One example he showed me was that the car was idling around 500-600 on the stock tune, but the computer's desired RPM was still around 1500ish.
Same while driving, when I was around 1500 RPMs or so, the computer's desired RPM was around 600-700 or so as if it wanted me to be idling.
He sent off those results and gonna get back to me when they update him.
If any tuners are interested in checking it out, I've uploaded the logs that were requested by Lund to this post. Log #19 is the most recent (from today)
UPDATE (10/16/2017):
Went to Ford, waited about an hour, and then was asked if I could come back later in the week because one of the techs had a small incident. My morning was not going that well, so I was completely fine with this.
However, I did post in the Ford Shelby GT350 Owners group on Facebook today and one of the guys in the group reached out to me. I called him and he's having the EXACT same issues as me. He has about 20k miles on his car and it started around 18k, just like mine. Car revs up during upshifts, surges, etc. after going WOT, just like me. He even got the exact same P0830 and P0838 (I think it is) codes pertaining to Clutch Pedal Switch Circuit A and B.
He said he's been involved with a Ford engineer for about two months and they're replaced a lot of things -- ECU, clutch pedal switch, crank sensors, throttle body, and the issue still persists.
I'm extremely relieved to know that someone else with a 100% stock car is having this issue, mostly so that I can lose my concerns about the tune potentially contributing to the issue. So now we're going to exchange some information and see if we can combine information and figure out what the issue is without me having to go through all of that as well.
UPDATE (10/20/2017):
Car just lost 5th gear while on the way back home from dropping off my pet before taking off for my weekend vacation. Drove the car home, parked it, and informed my Ford advisor and technician. They stated it's probably just the syncros and that I should be OK to drive it.
UPDATE (10/26/2017):
Made a trip back to Baton Rouge to pick up my dog, and came home just fine. Left out to go to Best Buy and my car started vibrating like crazy, almost as if the transmission wanted to just shoot out of the car or something. It got so bad that I had to park it and turn it off because I'd feel the vibrating/thumping pretty heavily even in neutral.
Waited about 4 1/2 hours for a tow truck driver to come and actually tow the car -- the first guy bitched about how the car was too low for him after waiting 3 hours for him, so he ended up leaving. Car made it to the dealership after about 5 hours and the dealership is trying to reproduce and diagnose the issue. Thankfully my dash cam captured the footage because they're having a difficult time reproducing it at the shop.
UPDATE (11/20/2017):
Car is still at Ford, just passed 3 weeks now. Going on a month come Friday. Just asked if they'd have the car ready for thanksgiving and they mentioned they'll try, but haven't gotten to it yet. So I'm pretty much not getting the car back this week either.
UPDATE (11/25/2017):
Dealership decided to replace the whole transmission assembly rather than trying to rebuild it and fix it. They overnighted a transmission on Tuesday and it's probably gonna get here Monday.
Update (11/27/2017):
Just was told by Ford Customer Relations that the dealership won't get to it until tomorrow, and should have it fixed by next week. At the rate things have been going, this basically means they won't get to the car until next week.
So my GT350 is my first standard car. Before I got it I had a '15 GT vert (build thread in signature) and, right before I got the GT350, I had spent countless hours researching, watching videos, etc., just trying to form a list of best practices for driving a manual transmission car. Rev matching, not riding the clutch, etc. Of course I ran into a lot of debates and all, but over time I just started forming my own theory based on how the car feels -- making sure the drive is as smooth as possible, especially downshifting.
At about 19k miles, I started noticing a few weird things going on with the car. When I go wide open throttle (shifting even at 6K RPMs), the following symptoms start to develop:
- After returning from WOT, and going cruising speeds (60mph / 6th gear), the car surges and starts to become uncomfortable, causing you to take your foot off the throttle. It's the feeling and sound of engine load constantly increasing and decreasing.
- After returning from WOT, and for about 5-10 minutes, the car revs up about 500 RPMs while upshifting (and even neutral), forcing you to keep the clutch depressed for about 3-4 seconds.
- After returning from WOT, and decelerating, the car feels like it's engine braking (normal) but then it feels like it's surging -- the engine braking will stop and the car will coast like it's in neutral, and then back to engine braking. Happens repeatedly and every few seconds.
Now mind you I drive this car a lot, however I don't run it all day every day, just like 2-3 times over 2 days I'll go wide open like merging onto the interstate and then back to normal speeds. As far as mods, for the most part I just have full exhaust and a tune. After this issue started occurring more frequently, I decided to take it to Ford. We flashed it back to stock and reproduced the same issue on the stock tune. They had me do a few tests, like try taking off in 4th, 5th, and 6th gear, and my car did NOT stall, indicating the clutch is slipping. A friend also suggested it may be the clutch. My friend also suggested that he heard the clutch slipping in my exhaust video, although to me it's just the tires spinning.
Anyways, here are a few "habits" that I have:
- When taking off, I usually ease off on the clutch (of course) and sometimes rev to about 1.5k just to hear it a little.
- I usually rev match and about 65% of the time I get it right. I usually ease out of the clutch for a "smooth" downshift too, rather than a hard jerk for over or under blipping.
- Sometimes during spirited driving I'll prepare for a turn (like exiting the interstate onto a loop) and rev match 5th -> 4th -> 3rd (so usually end up around 5-6k in 3rd at a fast pace, but usually smooth), almost as you would when going WOT on an open track and getting ready to slow down for a corner, so you blip a gear or two down.
- Every once in a blue moon, I'd either rev back at another mustang or rev under an overpass. Usually clutch in, blip, wait for RPMs to fall, and clutch back out where the RPMs were before. Again, every once in awhile.
- Also, I leave the car in neutral at red lights, so no holding in the clutch.
Curious of any feedback.
UPDATE (10/04/2017):
So I took my car to Ford a few weeks ago to get it diagnosed, and after about an hour or two and some tests, they determined that the clutch may have been slipping. According to Ford's articles for the techs (they showed it to me), the clutch is slipping if the car does not stall while trying to take off in 4th gear under 2K RPMs. In my case, I was able to take off in 6th gear without the car stalling.
Took my car into Ford to get a brand new clutch installed and I put about 500 miles on the car before trying to go wide open throttle again and reproduce the issue. Well, the the issue returned. So now they're getting Ford engineers involved to try figuring out what's going on. I have to drop it off on this upcoming Friday (10/06/2017).
UPDATE (10/06/2017):
Ok, so quick update. I went to Ford today, flashed back to stock per their request (again), and they hooked up their monitoring stuff. Apparently Ford engineers wanted to data log the car themselves. From what the tech was able to gather initially after the session, the computer's desired RPM was completely different (and always different) from the actual RPM. One example he showed me was that the car was idling around 500-600 on the stock tune, but the computer's desired RPM was still around 1500ish.
Same while driving, when I was around 1500 RPMs or so, the computer's desired RPM was around 600-700 or so as if it wanted me to be idling.
He sent off those results and gonna get back to me when they update him.
If any tuners are interested in checking it out, I've uploaded the logs that were requested by Lund to this post. Log #19 is the most recent (from today)
UPDATE (10/16/2017):
Went to Ford, waited about an hour, and then was asked if I could come back later in the week because one of the techs had a small incident. My morning was not going that well, so I was completely fine with this.
However, I did post in the Ford Shelby GT350 Owners group on Facebook today and one of the guys in the group reached out to me. I called him and he's having the EXACT same issues as me. He has about 20k miles on his car and it started around 18k, just like mine. Car revs up during upshifts, surges, etc. after going WOT, just like me. He even got the exact same P0830 and P0838 (I think it is) codes pertaining to Clutch Pedal Switch Circuit A and B.
He said he's been involved with a Ford engineer for about two months and they're replaced a lot of things -- ECU, clutch pedal switch, crank sensors, throttle body, and the issue still persists.
I'm extremely relieved to know that someone else with a 100% stock car is having this issue, mostly so that I can lose my concerns about the tune potentially contributing to the issue. So now we're going to exchange some information and see if we can combine information and figure out what the issue is without me having to go through all of that as well.
UPDATE (10/20/2017):
Car just lost 5th gear while on the way back home from dropping off my pet before taking off for my weekend vacation. Drove the car home, parked it, and informed my Ford advisor and technician. They stated it's probably just the syncros and that I should be OK to drive it.
UPDATE (10/26/2017):
Made a trip back to Baton Rouge to pick up my dog, and came home just fine. Left out to go to Best Buy and my car started vibrating like crazy, almost as if the transmission wanted to just shoot out of the car or something. It got so bad that I had to park it and turn it off because I'd feel the vibrating/thumping pretty heavily even in neutral.
Waited about 4 1/2 hours for a tow truck driver to come and actually tow the car -- the first guy bitched about how the car was too low for him after waiting 3 hours for him, so he ended up leaving. Car made it to the dealership after about 5 hours and the dealership is trying to reproduce and diagnose the issue. Thankfully my dash cam captured the footage because they're having a difficult time reproducing it at the shop.
UPDATE (11/20/2017):
Car is still at Ford, just passed 3 weeks now. Going on a month come Friday. Just asked if they'd have the car ready for thanksgiving and they mentioned they'll try, but haven't gotten to it yet. So I'm pretty much not getting the car back this week either.
UPDATE (11/25/2017):
Dealership decided to replace the whole transmission assembly rather than trying to rebuild it and fix it. They overnighted a transmission on Tuesday and it's probably gonna get here Monday.
Update (11/27/2017):
Just was told by Ford Customer Relations that the dealership won't get to it until tomorrow, and should have it fixed by next week. At the rate things have been going, this basically means they won't get to the car until next week.
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