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Whipple weirdness this morning

Whipple SC

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Whipple says in a post above that "In general, the E10 requires the engine to run richer air fuel to maintain the same EGT temp, which results in slightly lower power, although very small %."

J
Both are correct. To maintain same reliability factor it has to be richer. If fuel volume is left the same, it can technically make more power if the air fuel is richer than optimal air fuel. Example, if a motor is calibrated to 12:1 air fuel, then you run E10 and it goes to 12.4:1, it generally will make more if that does not lead to detonation or go leaner than an optimal air fuel. In most cases, with aftermarket Supercharged motors, this pushes you just past the safety point on 91 which makes it potentially unsafe.
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markmurfie

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Just ran into this same thing. I was data logging after my install making sure everything was good. Everything looked great driving around at partial throttle and WOT pulls in the higher gears, so I decided to go for a launch and see what happened on the shifts. It spun and I was pedaling it in first gear, on the shift to second it hit 5* of knock. started up shifting and felt like the belt came off or like when a pipe blows off on a turbo or centri car. towards to end of the log you can see where my pedal would basically give the minimum throttle.

I'm going to turn off the knock limiting to avoid the "damn I broke something" feeling, but will have to look into whats causing that knock on the shifts. My car has been making an excessive amount of clunking, with throttle input changes, from the rear end since I went to solid diff mounts so I'm going to start there.
Whipple knock limiting.PNG
 

Tommy V

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8lHoly shit man that was a serious knock event,no.step up.at all.Good thing is it slowly starts adding a little timing again so I doubt it detonation.Even on the autos u get that knock in between shifts,I think it's because it shifts so hard.Also sometimes when the car spins right at a shift u will.see some knock,but usually not that much.
 

markmurfie

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Yeah it was unexpected, but if you have knock limiting enabled and your car basically lost the ability to create boost you must have had a big knock event. luckily I was logging and know it was during a shift.

Earlier pulls I was seeing 23* at 3700 rpms tapering down to 20.5 in fourth gear pulls adding 3-4* on the knock PID. Absolutely no signs of knock. Fuel was the same or better than stock. Whipple's off the shelf tune is incredible.
4th pull.PNG
 

jasonstang

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Knock limiting is now off. Thanks!

I just can't get good gas around here. No matter where I buy my 93 (ethanol ridden) here on Long Island, I get KR. Especially at low RPMs. You can actually feel the car pulling timing.

I've tried Octanium and NOS octane boost. The NOS octane boost really makes a difference! NO KR. See a lot of negative KR numbers instead of positive. Tried it twice. Both times the car feels totally different.

NY and their mandated ethanol sucks!

J
Time to run E85:D
 

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Tommy V

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Yeah it was unexpected, but if you have knock limiting enabled and your car basically lost the ability to create boost you must have had a big knock event. luckily I was logging and know it was during a shift.

Earlier pulls I was seeing 23* at 3700 rpms tapering down to 20.5 in fourth gear pulls adding 3-4* on the knock PID. Absolutely no signs of knock. Fuel was the same or better than stock. Whipple's off the shelf tune is incredible.
Was u seeing 23 degrees on 93 and what boost u at.
 

TooSoonJunior

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Had this same nanny happen to me, closed the throttle on me. Happened for me after having about 2-3* of knock on a 2nd to 4th gear pull. Was a bad gas fill up, will never go to that station again.

But with that said, this protection mode is more for a autocross kind of driving, where it assumes you have an hour more ahead of your last pull of WOTs, not just a few more 2-3 gear pulls. Whipple recommends turning it off, you will still have knock retard working but it wont aggregate the events and eventually shut the throttle.
[MENTION=20337]TomM[/MENTION]y_V Mark posted the log up higher, I see very similar timing as well, 22-23* tapering down to about 19.5* on pure 93 octane, no adders etc. That's with a 3.625 pulley.
 

sigintel

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Yeah it was unexpected, but if you have knock limiting enabled and your car basically lost the ability to create boost you must have had a big knock event. luckily I was logging and know it was during a shift.

Earlier pulls I was seeing 23* at 3700 rpms tapering down to 20.5 in fourth gear pulls adding 3-4* on the knock PID. Absolutely no signs of knock. Fuel was the same or better than stock. Whipple's off the shelf tune is incredible.
Back pedalling (easing off) throttle from WOT above 5500 rpm while requesting a 1-2 or 2-3 shift in Sport mode on the 6R80 has ALWAYS been a good way to get some knock during the shift if the timing on rolling back into throttle is just right.
Try a pull to 6k, 6.5k, 7k or so in 1st or 2nd and lift completely, tap for upshift, and time your roll back into throttle as shift occurs.
CuuCLaCKety CLack...
My theory is that during shift the SC can over run the belt and the fast rate of IM pressure change is hard for the ECU to keep up with and the throttle hang results in some fuel (under fueled) during the transition.
When I changed to second belt routing but still using old tensioner, this was more likely to occur. I dont run that anymore though obviously.
 

markmurfie

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I found the main issue. I put the differential in the cradle out side of the car. I put the bolts in the front in backwards. They were making contact with the fuel tank guard. I took a sawzall to them to give about 1/2" clearance. While under there I also trimmed the exhaust hangers at the back of the cradle. They were not making contact but looked too close and MBRP made them way too long anyway. The gear noise while driving is significantly reduced and I can actually hear my exhaust again while cruising. I still hear a thud/ping every now and again going from P to D or D to R, but I've been hearing that since the car had 2500 miles on it. Now the only time I see the knock sensor not at -3 to -4 is in the middle of second when the TCC engages and COT kicks in and the AFR drops to .75 they seem to happen about the same time. The knock advance backs out to -1 to -.5. Nothing you can do about that, but go to a custom tune.

I dropped the tire pressure three psi and firmed up the rear shocks half a turn and I am starting to slowly find more and more traction. This is exactly where I was hoping to be, trying to find traction not worrying about the engine.
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