Stock GT Mani vs F150 Mani Dyno

I don't buy the fact that your car has no issues and the tune from Ford for that PP2 pull is normal. It's quite horrible (WITH the stock GT manifold).

I'm not easily finding a different PP2 Dyno pull for comparison, but your power curve is not normal and I doubt Ford would approve of that (assuming there wasn't anything wrong with your car).

Can you list your mods?

I agree Mustang owners can do whatever they want. They can even swap in an LS or LT, which might be the "next" step for you ;) Ill probably go down the route of a faster car with more RPM and peak power, but to each their own :cheers:

Eritas said:

I don't buy the fact that your car has no issues and the tune from Ford for that PP2 pull is normal. It's quite horrible (WITH the stock GT manifold).

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Honestly it really doesnt matter what you believe. My car has about 6k miles and you cant seem to prove otherwise.

Eritas said:

I'm not easily finding a different PP2 Dyno pull for comparison,

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So how can you make a proper assumption lol?

Eritas said:

but your power curve is not normal and I doubt Ford would approve of that (assuming there wasn't anything wrong with your car).

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Maybe/Maybe not blame Ford. As far as your other statement that probably applies to half the community. Either way I'm pretty sure I have money so let me worry about my finances and your worry about yourself

Eritas said:

Can you list your mods?

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This was asked and answered please reread.

Eritas said:

I agree Mustang owners can do whatever they want.

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/end conversation right?

Eritas said:

They can even swap in an LS or LT, which might be the "next" step for you ;) Ill probably go down the route of a faster car with more RPM and peak power, but to each their own :cheers:

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How old are you? You seem real childish. I never mind learning and a healthy debate but the way your acting if you dont like my thread then get out :shrug:

It's called common sense. Look at your stock curve, look at any stock curve, then look at the erratic behavior your PP2 and F150 manifold show. Now your F150 manifolds results could be explained by the tune not being designed for it, but that does not explain the issue with your PP2 pull.

So either there's something wrong with your car or Ford is incompetent.

It's a joke, relax man. You justify more low end torque and I countered with the benefits of PP2s higher RPM, power, and powerband, and how that offsets the lower low end torque when you rev out PP2. That's part of the "healthy" debate whether you're pissed that I'm not agreeing with you or not.. The Camaro jokes are poking fun and somewhat justified based off of the direction you're going and the limitations of the F150 manifold -which will not out-Camaro a larger displacement engine when it comes to low to mid range torque. That's why it's funny. Get a sense of humor.

Maybe people wouldnt buttheads with you if you reeled back the superiority complex like you need to "teach" everyone a lesson in every damn thing you post.......

Eritas said:

It's a joke, relax man. You justify more low end torque and I countered with the benefits of PP2s higher RPM, power, and powerband, and how that offsets the lower low end torque when you rev out PP2. That's part of the "healthy" debate whether you're pissed that I'm not agreeing with you or not.. The Camaro jokes are poking fun and somewhat justified based off of the direction you're going and the limitations of the F150 manifold -which will not out-Camaro a larger displacement engine when it comes to low to mid range torque. That's why it's funny. Get a sense of humor.

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Right... a joke ...huh You were clearly trying to insult as shown when I initially called you out on the issue and you continued with your childish remarks. Not to mention you keep bringing up this Camaro shit as if its your favorite car. I mean if they usually go twin turbos in the future then yup I'm a camaro guy:doh::frusty:

As for the other stuff you said :

Eritas said:

It's called common sense. Look at your stock curve, look at any stock curve, then look at the erratic behavior your PP2 and F150 manifold show. Now your F150 manifolds results could be explained by the tune not being designed for it, but that does not explain the issue with your PP2 pull.

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There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the stock graph comparing it to other graphs. In fact it looks like it could have even went higher if it went past 6500ish rpm. The weird curves are only highlighted once the PP2 and F150 manifold are added. To me this shows if there is any issue it would be those two things NOT the car.

Not to mention after further dyno graph reviews it seems the twin peaks between 4-5K rpm and the sometimes dips around 2-3k seems normal.

See below:

GT350 Mani Dyno
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forum member dyno (forgot mods):



Steeda Dyno:

The peaks just appear to be bigger on the F150...

I apologize thst my last post wasn't clearly written. Your stock graph seems normal other than it only revving to 6,500RPM. I agree that you'd likely make a little more power if it was taken to redline, which is typically 6,800RPM on most dynos I've seen, since your HP was still climbing.

So the torque peaks and shape of your stock pull looks fine. I was trying to imply that what does not look fine is the PP2 pulls with it's aggressive torque drop at 3,700RPM, then a pretty awkward HP jump at 6,000-6,500RPM -which neither YOUR stock or F150 pulls have.

Just to be clear, that PP2 pull is Ford's tune (ProCal) and package for the GT350 throttle body and CAI? If so, it doesn't look right, which is why I suggested there was something wrong with the tune or the car.

Ive said it a couple times now that I understand that your F150 pull was not tuned for it, which can explain the big and exaggerated torque peaks (but so does an increase in mid-range torque from the manifold itself), we also agreed on the F150s high RPM restriction. I actually don't think the F150 pull was that *bad* at all, other than a bit of 'flatness' between 5,000-5,500RPM which a good tune would possibly improve.

The main question/concern is the odd shape of the PP2 pull. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around why it looks so bad if that's the way it came from Ford.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around people modding their cars to be slower.

Seems to me the F150 manifold will be slower in the 1/4 mile but have a bit more mid-range torque. My question is, why not just use the stock manifold and rev a bit higher? You wan't to go faster? Downshift.

millhouse said:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around people modding their cars to be slower.

Seems to me the F150 manifold will be slower in the 1/4 mile but have a bit more mid-range torque. My question is, why not just use the stock manifold and rev a bit higher? You wan't to go faster? Downshift.

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I'm with you man, but then again if you never rev your car out, the increased mid range from the F150 does kind of make sense for daily driving. Now if a good tune can't smooth out the more aggressive torque peaks, that would probably drive me nuts and feel like the car is surging because I already feel the stock torque peak surge in my car compared to the flat torque curve of my M3 or hell, even that Camaro.

I don't think it's a bad idea to make more power for daily drivers and hope to see more development of the F150 manifold to be more refined. So I'm not crucifying those pioneers. BUT, the 5.0L coyote will never have the low end torque of a 6-7L pushrod GM motor, so I agree with you that making a low displacement and high revving DOHC engine thats on par with an LS-LT to be "worse" than the LS-LT by hurting it's strength of high RPM power to never get the low end of the LS-LT and to be inferior across the entire powerband does seem counter intuitive. I guess I just offended people by pointing that out.

Eritas said:

BUT, the 5.0L coyote will never have the low end torque of a 6-7L pushrod GM motor

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That is exactly my point. The coyote will never sound like a pushrod V8, nor will it ever have the flat torque curve of a larger displacement LT1. Quite honestly, it seems like those that feel the need for the latter purchased the wrong vehicle. I'm not trying to chastise those looking to do this swap, but in all of my years modding cars this may be the first time I have seen people intentionally slowing them down. And it's not like the coyote doesn't have low end torque stock.

I personally reach redline several times a day...and would LOVE to push those RPM up another 300-500 with added HP.

This analysis done over a year ago I think is a much better picture of the difference in the performance of the manifolds and includes the Boss and CJ manifold in the testing. Clearly in the comparison in this thread, something went WRONG with the PP2 dyno and was drastically down on torque than from where it should have been (not PEAK torque but just the front half of the curve is just flat out missing).

https://www.*******************/forums/threads/coyote-f-150-intake-test.1110961/

TooSoonJunior said:

This analysis done over a year ago I think is a much better picture of the difference in the performance of the manifolds and includes the Boss and CJ manifold in the testing. Clearly in the comparison in this thread, something went WRONG with the PP2 dyno and was drastically down on torque than from where it should have been (not PEAK torque but just the front half of the curve is just flat out missing).

https://www.*******************/forums/threads/coyote-f-150-intake-test.1110961/

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I agree that OP has an issue with his PP2 pull, but that comparison isn't a very relevant one to 2025+ cars because that motor had a lot of mods and it was a Gen1 coyote. They couldn't control the GT350 manifold's valves which improve low end torque in the stock Gen2 GT & GT350 manifolds.

I also installed the F150 intake. As you can see in my sig, I have a PMAS and a Rob Shoemaker tune. The car pulls harder but does seem to drop off slightly up high. Maybe because I expect it to since I have looked at all these dyno pulls prior to installing it yesterday. I do like all the discussion and looking at the dynos but I'm more interested in time slips. I plan to go to my local 1/8 track on Friday and make a few runs to compare to my times with my stock intake just a few weeks ago. If my car gets better times, fantastic! If not, I can put my stock intake back on and sell my F150 for the $64 I paid for it. For me, it is just an inexpensive experiment and something fun to try. I do like the extra grunt it has down low and midrange. The way I figure it, for $64 I can't go wrong. I can see why this might appeal to those who autox or road race. I don't do that at all. Mine is just a daily driver and occasional trips to local 1/8 track for grudge night or test and tune fun. I will report back after I go to the track and let everyone know how my car performed with the F150 intake.

Volstang - was your stock manifold tuned with a CAI? If it wasn't, then your tuned F150 should be faster on track.

Keep in mind, If you shifted the stock intake at 6,000-6,500RPM, the F150 will be faster. You need to rev a tuned CAI GT manifold to 7K+ to get better performance than a F150.

My stock manifold was tuned with the PMAS. My best pass at my local 1/8 track a few weeks ago was 7.99 @ 92. Mine shifts at right about 7200. Going to see how this F150 IM works with the same tune I ran with the stock mani. My tuner said the same tune should be fine. I will data log it and send those to him to check out. If my car runs slower I will just switch back to stock mani.

millhouse said:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around people modding their cars to be slower.

Seems to me the F150 manifold will be slower in the 1/4 mile but have a bit more mid-range torque. My question is, why not just use the stock manifold and rev a bit higher? You wan't to go faster? Downshift.

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Not everyone lives their lives 1/4 mile at a time, there are other forms of "racing" that don't involve 1/4 mile strips. And for those other forms of racing, this manifold with it's better midrange torque will perform better overall than than the OEM GT manifold.

The answer to going faster is not always "downshift". In those other forms of racing, one will lose significant amount of time constantly downshifting and upshifting to stay in the peaky powerband rather than be in the same gear the whole time with a nice meaty flat powerband.