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SleepyPony

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Found a thread about the stock ecoboost driveshaft and CF DSS driveshaft. The stock driveshaft weighs in at 29.9 with all the bolts and boot. The CF DSS driveshaft comes in at 21lbs with all of its hardware.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18613&highlight=driveshaft

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27224&highlight=ultimate+racing

So with all this
Stock Ecoboost Catback ~ 50lbs
Stock Ecoboost driveshaft ~ 29.9lbs
Stock Battery ~ 31lbs

Ultimate racing single exit catback ~ 25lbs
DSS CF Driveshaft ~ 21lbs
Antigravity Battery ~ 5lbs

The most cost effective weight savings (without giving up creature comforts) would be a catback and lightweight battery because driveshafts would only save 8lbs tops.
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offcamber

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I thought the stock exhaust weighs 72lbs?
I think that's in the 6G Wiki.
 
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TheLion

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Battery and exhaust are easily the best weight savings. The next would be lightweight wheels. Meaning stick with 18's or go with Flow Formed 19's.

BTW my factory 18's with lighter weight 245/50R18 micheline Ice-x snow tires weighed in at 52.8 lbs while the RTR Tech 7 19's with Pilot Sport AS3+ 275/40R19's weighed in at 54.2 lbs.



The factory all season's on the 18's came in at almost exactly 54 lbs total weight (tire and wheel).

So going to a higher grip, wider tire with low weight and high strength flow formed 19's (forged is even better and you can get forged in 18" so it's a couple pounds lighter yet per wheel) keeps you from gaining un-sprung mass unlike Factory 19's that are nearly 8~10 lbs heavier per wheel!

More tire = better launch. Lower mass = better acceleration and handling.





23caldyno.jpg


Yes, during this dyno run I had the glitchy -CJA calibration. This was done on a very humid day (54%) this past saturday (22nd July) with the Levels Gen 3 FMIC. That same day, after I got home I swapped out the Levels for the ATM inter cooler and reflashed the ECU to the -CJB calibration (the fixed one without the torque drop off right in the middle of the power band). After I drive a few hundred miles and it re-learns the octane I'll take the car back for another dyno run. I also had to swap back the hot side charge pipe as the AEM one didn't fit the ATM inter cooler hot side, it was too short and the rubber coupler was very difficult to get over the barbed hot side port on the ATM inter cooler.

So those 3 changes will be the only differences between the above dyno run and the next one. Charge pipes generally don't net any measurable power gains however, it's mostly a reliability upgrade. The stock piping from a flow standpoint is very well designed already with a nice gradual taper and a decent curve radius coming outside of compressor outlet, but for now I'll be using the stock piping as it fit just fine. I may even leave it and just by the T-bolt clamp set and call it a day.
 
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TheLion

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sharp21

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Yeah, I've lowered my car on steeda progressive springs.
I was thinking of getting the following mods: GFB DV+ BPV, Turbo Smart BOV, UPR Catch Can (not sure if this will work with FRPP gt350 intake?), and 6 or 4 piston brakes in the front.

I have a 2016 Mustang EcoBoost Premium without the performance pack so I have 2 piston brakes in the front.
I've got the perf pack and GT brakes are more than enough up front. Make sure to get them powdercoated before making the swap! I painted mine on the car and it looks good, but knowing what i know now I'd PC for sure.
 
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TheLion

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I was chatting with the tuner and some interesting conversation came up. One of the guys there he was chatting with when I arrived, whom I had the pleasure of talking to, works for Garrett turbo chargers as a mechanical engineer.

They are apparently working on an after market inter cooler for the Ecoboost mustangs. He said they are seeing 20~30 hp gains over the stock inter cooler on a bone stock car because the stock unit heat soaks so badly. He also noted you shouldn't see any gains from swapping out an inter cooler if the one on the car is already properly sized and cooling effectively, which illustrates how bad the stock unit is.

Then I got to chatting with the tuner, who actually did some testing for Ford several years back before the ecoboost became ecoboost. They were experimenting with all kinds of different things like rear mounted turbos (which they abandoned due to the xtreme lag) etc.

He said that fall off at the top end is due to the ECU dumping a bunch of fuel and also limiting power to protect the stock catalytic converter from over heating. So if you need to pass e-check, one more reason to use the FP Calibration.

The highest charge temp I saw with the Levels Gen 3 FMIC during the pulls (4 total) was 115F. That's 4 back to back pulls in a row, so pretty good for poor air flow conditions. We had 3 high flow blower fans aimed right at the FMIC so they appear to have done a decent job of getting air past it.
 

vegetakid24

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I've got the perf pack and GT brakes are more than enough up front. Make sure to get them powdercoated before making the swap! I painted mine on the car and it looks good, but knowing what i know now I'd PC for sure.
Thanks for the advice. I'll be sure to powdercoat them before putting them on. What are your thoughts on the other 3 upgrades? Are they necessary and or do they synergize with a tune like FRPP or would I need a more custom tune.
 
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TheLion

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Thanks for the advice. I'll be sure to powdercoat them before putting them on. What are your thoughts on the other 3 upgrades? Are they necessary and or do they synergize with a tune like FRPP or would I need a more custom tune.
I would stay away from BOV's for the following reasons:

1. Pneumatic BOV's bypass ECU control, not really a good thing if you need a warranty repair and it may not be opening at the most opportune time as it's a fixed closed loop system.

2. You'll also get hissing at cruising speed on the highway as the BPV vents to the intake for fuel efficiency purposes when not under boost, very annoying. You can't tune this out with the FP Calibration as it's designed to work with relatively stock configuration. You'd need to go after market tune to eliminate continuous re-circulation while cruising.

Stick with the DV+ if your going to modify the diverter valve. It's as fast as the factory valve, opens and closes when the ECU expects it to and it will prevent boost leaks.

No need for a catch can if you run a high end oil with a low boil off rate like AMSOil Signatures Series or something equivalent. I go only 1/4 of a quart low in 10k miles and only 1/2 a quart with the factory Motorcraft (only ran that for the first 10k miles until oil life sensor indicated it was time for a change). Once I switched to the AMSOil it was almost all water. It won't hurt anything unless you start forgetting to empty it, but the factory oil separator does a decent enough job to keep the valves clean enough that it's a non-issue when running a high end oil. Go WOT when merging onto the freeway...that's my catch can!

The performance trifecta with the FP Calibration is the Calibration itself (and the CAI it comes with), Inter Cooler and Gearing. Those 3 make a world of difference together. The best combination for a manual is 3.73 Torsen with an ATM inter cooler or for an auto the 3.55 torsen with the ATM inter cooler (many of the Stage 1 FMIC's work well too). Since you have a base model I'd suggest buying the whole diff from a wrecked GT and swapping it out or you can buy it new from AM, but it will run about $1800 vs. about $800~$900 on e-bay.

Base model auto's have 3.15's and base model manual's have 3.31's. The only consideration for those gears is fuel economy...
 
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vegetakid24

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I would stay away from BOV's for the following reasons:

1. Pneumatic BOV's bypass ECU control, not really a good thing if you need a warranty repair and it may not be opening at the most opportune time as it's a fixed closed loop system.

2. You'll also get hissing at cruising speed on the highway as the BPV vents to the intake for fuel efficiency purposes when not under boost, very annoying. You can't tune this out with the FP Calibration as it's designed to work with relatively stock configuration. You'd need to go after market tune to eliminate continuous re-circulation while cruising.

Stick with the DV+ if your going to modify the diverter valve. It's as fast as the factory valve, opens and closes when the ECU expects it to and it will prevent boost leaks.

No need for a catch can if you run a high end oil with a low boil off rate like AMSOil Signatures Series or something equivalent. I go only 1/4 of a quart low in 10k miles and only 1/2 a quart with the factory Motorcraft (only ran that for the first 10k miles until oil life sensor indicated it was time for a change). Once I switched to the AMSOil it was almost all water. It won't hurt anything unless you start forgetting to empty it, but the factory oil separator does a decent enough job to keep the valves clean enough that it's a non-issue when running a high end oil. Go WOT when merging onto the freeway...that's my catch can!

The performance trifecta with the FP Calibration is the Calibration itself (and the CAI it comes with), Inter Cooler and Gearing. Those 3 make a world of difference together. The best combination for a manual is 3.73 Torsen with an ATM inter cooler or for an auto the 3.55 torsen with the ATM inter cooler (many of the Stage 1 FMIC's work well too). Since you have a base model I'd suggest buying the whole diff from a wrecked GT and swapping it out or you can buy it new from AM, but it will run about $1800 vs. about $800~$900 on e-bay.

Base model auto's have 3.15's and base model manual's have 3.31's. The only consideration for those gears is fuel economy...
Thanks for the input lion. Ok i'll only purchase the DV+ and not the rest of the parts I was planning on. I've thought about gears but they are a little out of price range atm.
 

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TheLion

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I spoke with Mike Goodwin at Ford Performance regarding the sudden torque drop off at the top end. He confirmed that's simply the PCM protecting the catalytic converter:

It definitely looks like you’re getting into cat protection zone above 5800 rpm. Heat tends to build up in the cats on repeated dyno pulls as there is no air moving under the car to keep them cool. A run with the cats starting completely cool would probably eliminate the graphs falling off.

The latest version of the calibration should fix your dips in the 5000-5300 area on your graph.

Mike Goodwin

Supervisor Ford Performance Information Center
As noted however, there's one MORE limitation of the typical dyno. You simply don't get the air flow you need through the engine compartment and the necessary cooling to see the full power. The top end will pull stronger than the dyno would indicate in actual use (which is what I experience) as the catalytic converter is cooled by air moving through the engine bay and around the whole exhaust at speed. Many of these after market tunes simply disable the protection function for the catalytic converter to get more power.

Problem is if you burn up the cat and your in an e-check state / county, you'll be buying a new catalyst even when flashing back to stock...even worse, it's possible to crack a ceramic cat with over temperature and cause a blockage which would trash the engine. That was an issue periodically with bad catalyst designs even on stock NA engines, I recall that being a problem with 2001 Chevy Impala's (had an old 9C1 police interceptor back in college, named Helga) and that was a common issue with the stock cats cracking after 100k and trashing the exhaust side valves due to massive blockage.

The only items that get air flow on the dyno typically are the inter cooler and to some degree the radiator, but even that's limited. Beyond that there's no air flow under the car, so you can either disable the protection functions in the software and just over heat it to make maximum power, or you can leave them on and find a way to provide cooling to get a better approximation of how much power you could potentially make under real driving conditions by providing air flow to the cat.

This would be one more reason to use a tuner with a close relationship to the parent company (Ford) from a reliability standpoint because the level of testing needed to make maximum power without sacrificing engine life is beyond what most of your typical shops can do or are willing to do. For any street car, reliability shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of a few extra ponies.

The next dyno run I do with the ATM inter cooler I'm going to see if we can stick one of those squirrel cage fans under the car and blow air on the catalytic converter and see if that provides enough cooling to let the top end stretch its legs with the FP calibration.
 

Norseman71

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I have read all 120 pages of this thread. Well it was 90 pages when I decided to pull the trigger. Living in Toronto the dealership wanted $950 CAD for the part plus $250 install and 13% tax.

I ordered the part from Steve Powell at Tasca and had it delivered to a friend in Wisconsin, $484 plus $15 shipping - $647 CAD (had to visit for 4 days to not pay tax) you could always have it delivered to the border and pay 13% tax.

I installed the CAI myself and had The dealer flash the ECU for $120, dealer told me tech had just put in a stage 2 calibration on a GT (which I think is the same CAI and a tune)

So total cost CAD of $767.00 - Would have been $1400 dealer purchased and installed

Thanks for all the help - with this thread I had the confidence to install it myself and the knowledge to create my account, download the tune to a USB and supply it all to the dealer to make it as quick and painless as possible. (Stock calibration returned to me on USB)

Drove home on the 401 in stop and go - it did feel sluggish and it hesitated a bit so I'll see in the morning with a more open road - looking forward to the reported smooth power and smooth shifts.

Again thanks for the help,and hopefully my post will help some people north of the border.
 

Redcruzer

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I have read all 120 pages of this thread. Well it was 90 pages when I decided to pull the trigger. Living in Toronto the dealership wanted $950 CAD for the part plus $250 install and 13% tax.

I ordered the part from Steve Powell at Tasca and had it delivered to a friend in Wisconsin, $484 plus $15 shipping - $647 CAD (had to visit for 4 days to not pay tax) you could always have it delivered to the border and pay 13% tax.

I installed the CAI myself and had The dealer flash the ECU for $120, dealer told me tech had just put in a stage 2 calibration on a GT (which I think is the same CAI and a tune)

So total cost CAD of $767.00 - Would have been $1400 dealer purchased and installed

Thanks for all the help - with this thread I had the confidence to install it myself and the knowledge to create my account, download the tune to a USB and supply it all to the dealer to make it as quick and painless as possible. (Stock calibration returned to me on USB)

Drove home on the 401 in stop and go - it did feel sluggish and it hesitated a bit so I'll see in the morning with a more open road - looking forward to the reported smooth power and smooth shifts.

Again thanks for the help,and hopefully my post will help some people north of the border.

Give it a couple hundred miles and you'll be all smiles :-) Love your Christmas Eve story. That would be one great Christmas at my house!
 

Materials

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Hey guys. I've had my FP Tune kit installed for since last wednesday and I just wanted to provide a short write up detailing my experience with the tune thus far and the installation process.

1.] Starting with the installation process, and the hoops I had to jump through due to the dealerships in my area. For starters I choose to go with a dealership, Ideally I wanted to just use my favorite ASE certified local shop, but with my work schedule and the shop being closed on the weekends I couldn't make it work with them. I called 4-5 different dealerships in the chicagoland area and asked to speak to the service manager. The first four dealerships had no idea what I was talking about. One shop said they would install just the intake, but would not file any paperwork to FP, and would void my factory warranty for the low price of $270. The tune would have to be done off the property and I'd be on my own. deal of a lifetime right? Finally found a dealership that had an aftermarket tech and booked a time that worked. I left them with my laptop and all the instructions (printed in advance) and the parts. 30 minutes into waiting they called me into the shop indicating there was an issue. The Procal software was not automatically populating the fields it was supposed to when the OBD port adapter was inserted. 45 minutes later we learned that you really have to jam that sucker in the port, like really get it in there. The tech didnt want to break it and thought it was all the way in. That may be the only important installation advice in this post, jam it in there good. giggity. Intake took em 30 minutes, tune took 30 minutes, paperwork just went through for the warranty today.

2.] Regarding the tune itself. When people have said in the past that the difference between stock and this tune is night and day. Believe them! The peak gains are not as important as the power curve and the area underneath it. In my opinion the worst part of car was the stock tune. It pulls pretty good until it doesn't, and your left yawning from 4.5k rpm - redline. It was anemic and utterly disappointing. For reference I have a buddy with a pro tuned FBO 15 Eco. This tune is not as powerful, but it completely fixes the top end. Now she puts you back in your seat until redline, shifts up and holds boost until the next redline. During the octane mapping phase I found myself disoriented as to my ground speed. I'd go WOT and I'm thinking "yeah that's about 60" only to look down and see I'm going 85. Now I'm not trying to say this car is now factually twice as fast, but damn the way she climbs to redline is just brutal now, and I'm trying to adjust to that unsuccessfully. All in all I'm very very happy with this tune kit. I track my car with MVP midwest frequently and the stock ECU and Stock goodyears have been my only hold back, I'll be sure to post another update after I've had a track day to really find the limits of this tune.

I'm hoping at least one person finds something they wanted to hear about this tune in my review. I purposely tried to steer this write up away from stictly technical figures and more along the lines of my personal impressions. Mainly because other people who know more than I do have already stated them and because I've only had 4-5 chances to take the car out since the install. All I can say is if you need a reliable tune and want to keep your warranty, this tune is for you. It's perfect. In the future after my wheel, tires, and Fp Track handling kit, I'll be going pro tune so this is a stepping stone of sorts, but god damn its a big leap from stock. :cheers:
Hey very nice write-up. I am kind of in your shoes-in Chicago area and look for a dealership that knows what this thing is and don't charge me crazy! The one I find quotes me $300 for installation...Would you mind telling me which dealership you went to? Feel free to PM and thanks!

I went to Gingerman a few times and will go to BlackHawk in less than two weeks. Have you been there before?:cheers:
 

Edkiefer

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I spoke with Mike Goodwin at Ford Performance regarding the sudden torque drop off at the top end. He confirmed that's simply the PCM protecting the catalytic converter:



As noted however, there's one MORE limitation of the typical dyno. You simply don't get the air flow you need through the engine compartment and the necessary cooling to see the full power. The top end will pull stronger than the dyno would indicate in actual use (which is what I experience) as the catalytic converter is cooled by air moving through the engine bay and around the whole exhaust at speed. Many of these after market tunes simply disable the protection function for the catalytic converter to get more power.

Problem is if you burn up the cat and your in an e-check state / county, you'll be buying a new catalyst even when flashing back to stock...even worse, it's possible to crack a ceramic cat with over temperature and cause a blockage which would trash the engine. That was an issue periodically with bad catalyst designs even on stock NA engines, I recall that being a problem with 2001 Chevy Impala's (had an old 9C1 police interceptor back in college, named Helga) and that was a common issue with the stock cats cracking after 100k and trashing the exhaust side valves due to massive blockage.

The only items that get air flow on the dyno typically are the inter cooler and to some degree the radiator, but even that's limited. Beyond that there's no air flow under the car, so you can either disable the protection functions in the software and just over heat it to make maximum power, or you can leave them on and find a way to provide cooling to get a better approximation of how much power you could potentially make under real driving conditions by providing air flow to the cat.

This would be one more reason to use a tuner with a close relationship to the parent company (Ford) from a reliability standpoint because the level of testing needed to make maximum power without sacrificing engine life is beyond what most of your typical shops can do or are willing to do. For any street car, reliability shouldn't be sacrificed for the sake of a few extra ponies.

The next dyno run I do with the ATM inter cooler I'm going to see if we can stick one of those squirrel cage fans under the car and blow air on the catalytic converter and see if that provides enough cooling to let the top end stretch its legs with the FP calibration.
Maybe I missed it in one of your above posts but why the change in intercooler?
Or your just trying a different shape one to see how performance compares.

The ATM does seem to have a deeper core were the main airflow is, at the bottom, at least from the pics.
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