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Mustang Mikes Queen Creek

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Just filled back up with 91 octane two days ago and oar will not climb back up to -1.00 its been stuck at .032 for the last 60 or so miles,How do you determine if this is low speed ignition knock,ie spark plugs possibbly,or that its bad fuel.Running the oem tune stage 0.Cylinder 4 correction has been as high as 2.5.

Now I have been running 91 mixed with e85 to make e20 e25 and for the added octane values for the last couple of months is the system trying to reset it self for the 91 octane and if so how long should this take?,.Motor has 26 thousand with the original plugs as well,maybe time for a better and new plug change? Thanks for any info
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How come you’re not mixing for E30 with a specific tune for that mix like most people? I have that set up with a tune from MPT. Anyway some say it takes 30 miles and some say the computer takes up to a week. But I would get your corn mix right and get a custom tune specifically for that.
 
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Mustang Mikes Queen Creek

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Ive been monitering oar,fuel pressure,afr,and knock count with the few gallons of e85 mixed and have had zero problems,Oar stays right at -1.00,afr at wot hasnt change big maybe half a point,91 octane usually shows ,9.70 It may bump up to 10.0 10.2 on a cold night.But ive been doing this for a long time.Couldnt get to the station in time so I filled it back up with 91,may of had a gallon of e25 left in the tank.Oar relearned but has been holding the values and the cylinder correction back for the last few days.

Car stinks like crap again,and is down on power with az 91 octane e10 e15 blend at least while the corrections are down.The car gets 27mpg around town on e25 and rocks.Hpfp didnt go past 93psi while mixed either.My understanding is anything over a 100 is bad news.On junk fuel it climbs to 86 88psi
 

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Ive been monitering oar,fuel pressure,afr,and knock count with the few gallons of e85 mixed and have had zero problems,Oar stays right at -1.00,afr at wot hasnt change big maybe half a point,91 octane usually shows ,9.70 It may bump up to 10.0 10.2 on a cold night.But ive been doing this for a long time.Couldnt get to the station in time so I filled it back up with 91,may of had a gallon of e25 left in the tank.Oar relearned but has been holding the values and the cylinder correction back for the last few days.

Car stinks like crap again,and is down on power with az 91 octane e10 e15 blend at least while the corrections are down.The car gets 27mpg around town on e25 and rocks.Hpfp didnt go past 93psi while mixed either.My understanding is anything over a 100 is bad news.On junk fuel it climbs to 86 88psi
Are you monitoring Lowside FP Actual (PSI) because your FRP Actual (PSI) is your HPFP reference which should normally be as high as 2900psi at peak torque?

Also, if you're running the Stage 0 91 octane profile you may never reach -1.00 OAR because you are going to be octane limited. When you add higher concentrations of ethanol you are achieving best OAR and the car responds accordingly. The OAR learn function is/can be manipulated to learn faster or slower or even default to a specific setting depending on the desire of the tuner. If you have to run 91 octane you may have to settle for never being able to achieve best OAR without resorting to adding additional ethanol. This isn't necessarily bad, you just don't get all of the beans until you raise the octane. Just run 1 to 1.5 gallons of e85 to a tank of 91 and you will likely satisfy the octane requirements for the learn function to give you the best your Stage 0 tune has to offer.
 
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Mustang Mikes Queen Creek

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That is what I have come to understand the last two days.

Since ive posted the oar has climbed back up to -.063 still not the -1.00 im use to seeing but im assuming that because ive been adding ethanol the last couple months and the factory tune has been giving me all the beans,that as soon as the car noticed the standard 91 e10 blend that its taking the beans back a bit by counter acting the timing or at least until it gives me 100 percent on the 91 relearn,which I know wont be all the timing,this I understand.

I will look for the setting for for high side rail pressure if there is one and see if I can get it to read

Thanks for the info. Mike
 
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Mustang Mikes Queen Creek

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Oar climbed to -.076 on the way to work,the monitor for the fuel pressure shows hpfp in the grid and shows a recall of 85psi when I last matted the throttle.Ive seen -1.00 in the past with the oem tune and 91 octane,Im thinking the system has just reset its oar values and timing values due to the lower grade fuel.Must just take a little time.
 
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Mustang Mikes Queen Creek

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One more quick question regarding this topic,when the oar goes back to -1.00 while keeping the 91 in the tank.If I introduce ethanol into the fuel again,does the oar continue with the -1.00 reading and just add the available timing curves left in the oem tune,or does the oar re-adjust its values back then forward then add the rest of the timing.

I see that it operates backwards when lesser octane is added/introduced,but does it relearn both peramiters then add the timing or does it just stay put and increase the timing threshold by itself.Sorry if im not asking the question correctly.

So rather then force the oar up with ethanol or higher octane fuel is it better to let it relearn the oar with 91 then add octane?,and if thats the case will the timing curves be the only tune values that change on the fly other then fuel trims,fp,and afrs.
 

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One more quick question regarding this topic,when the oar goes back to -1.00 while keeping the 91 in the tank.If I introduce ethanol into the fuel again,does the oar continue with the -1.00 reading and just add the available timing curves left in the oem tune,or does the oar re-adjust its values back then forward then add the rest of the timing.

I see that it operates backwards when lesser octane is added/introduced,but does it relearn both peramiters then add the timing or does it just stay put and increase the timing threshold by itself.Sorry if im not asking the question correctly.

So rather then force the oar up with ethanol or higher octane fuel is it better to let it relearn the oar with 91 then add octane?,and if thats the case will the timing curves be the only tune values that change on the fly other then fuel trims,fp,and afrs.
OAR adjusts according to knock activity and/or lack thereof. It doesn't go to the default value of 0 unless you reflash the tune profile which resets the OAR or you experience enough knock activity that it reaches zero and starts going into positive values.

It continuously adjusts itself to the fuel quality in the tank. For instance, if you were at a -1.00 on 91 then you fill up with 87, the tune will initially run ignition timing values that were acceptable for 91 and will begin to adjust OAR based on knock activity until it reaches an OAR that will run ignition timing values to were it doesn't see any knock activity.

Here's a very good article which explains the process in great detail...

http://stratifiedauto.com/blog/unde...ons-in-your-high-performance-ecoboost-engine/
 
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Mustang Mikes Queen Creek

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Thank you,Ive noticed as the oar goes back closer to -1.00 the ignition correction on 4 becomes less and less,Still stuck at -.074,oar.As far as the fuel pressure I did find what I think is actual high pressure fuel pressure reading,at wot it showed 2955 lbs with the 91 octane,Does that seem to be the normal range?

Ive also noticed that the oem oar 91 octane peramiters seem to learn slower then if I where to drop a 91 octane tune in her,seems to learn oar fast once a tune has been uploaded,Ive had the oar relearn as fast as 20 mins of driving once a tune is loaded.
 

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Thank you,Ive noticed as the oar goes back closer to -1.00 the ignition correction on 4 becomes less and less,Still stuck at -.074,oar.As far as the fuel pressure I did find what I think is actual high pressure fuel pressure reading,at wot it showed 2955 lbs with the 91 octane,Does that seem to be the normal range?

Ive also noticed that the oem oar 91 octane peramiters seem to learn slower then if I where to drop a 91 octane tune in her,seems to learn oar fast once a tune has been uploaded,Ive had the oar relearn as fast as 20 mins of driving once a tune is loaded.
Yes, 2900psi is normal. The OAR learn strategy can be manipulated by the person calibrating the tune. It can be made to learn quickly, slower and even defaulted to a specific value.

Tuner A- may have it default to a -1.00 unless it experiences x amount of knock activity/intensity. He also determines how much timing to retard and at what intensity of knock.

Tuner B- may have it defaulted to start at 0 and allow it to learn the fuel octane before achieving the desired -1.00 He may also deploy a different knock mitigation strategy than tuner A.

There's many different approaches a tuner can utilize to achieve a desired result. I'm not sure how the Cobb OTS tunes deal with knock and OAR, I can only assume it is fairly conservative on the stage 0 to mimic the factory strategy. The rate at which OAR learns is fully customizable or turned off all together.
 

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Mustang Mikes Queen Creek

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Outstanding,I decided after it hung onto .83 to jam a few gallons of liquor in her,shes allready responded with -0 correction + 5 degrees cylinder 4.oar is back up to -.093 shes getting there.Cars runs like a raped gorrilla with the mix,
Changing plugs today they have 27000 on them.
 

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Outstanding,I decided after it hung onto .83 to jam a few gallons of liquor in her,shes allready responded with -0 correction + 5 degrees cylinder 4.oar is back up to -.093 shes getting there.Cars runs like a raped gorrilla with the mix,
Changing plugs today they have 27000 on them.
27k on plugs? probably want to swap them more like every 7-10k if you're running a tune :thumbsup:!
 
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Battery took a shit had the radio on for 10 mins while drying the car at the wash,down to 8.5 volts,not a good start to the weekend.
 

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Outstanding,I decided after it hung onto .83 to jam a few gallons of liquor in her,shes allready responded with -0 correction + 5 degrees cylinder 4.oar is back up to -.093 shes getting there.Cars runs like a raped gorrilla with the mix,
Changing plugs today they have 27000 on them.
Make sure the plugs are gapped properly. .026-.028
 
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Mustang Mikes Queen Creek

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Looks like ill be buying the plugs from tune plus,Nothing locally under the denzo part number. Battery was fine,suprised it died so fast,the cells where also a little low so I added some distilled water threw it on the trickle and it was charged in 15 mins.Still seeing a little timing corection -1.50 (could be the plugs breaking down)but the oar is back online.Fresh penzoil plantinum ultra,full detail ready for a good smashing tonight.
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