ford has a new plan

Hack said:

Do you ever drive outside of a big city? If you do, either you don't look around, or you are kidding yourself.

Consumers ABSOLUTELY buy different things outside of a big city.

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Nailed it. Dirt votes won and that point is still glossed over. What we got was an opportunity to interrupt a certain utopian vision that has no need for things such as the car that drew us to this forum.

Why does everything need to get political?

There will be self driving autonomous driving cars soon. This doesn't mean there won't be self driving cars still available for many years to come. I for one welcome it because I can see it helping with drunk driving, impaired and distracted driving deaths.

None of this has anything to do with what political party or what ideology one belongs to. The market must want it and if it doesn't it will pass as another fad because they won't sell period.

By the way, I haven't read a ton about the new CEO's vision, but has it been stated that he/they want to do away with FP?

I agree - this shouldn't be political. Cars will become obsolete because of the passage of time and the arrival of new and better technologies. That's what overtook horses and buggies, and it'll overtake cars too.

Voters may be able to speed up change (take a leadership position) by voting one way, or slow down change (decide to let others lead) by voting a different way. That's democracy in action.

Minn19 said:

Why does everything need to get political?

There will be self driving autonomous driving cars soon. This doesn't mean there won't be self driving cars still available for many years to come. I for one welcome it because I can see it helping with drunk driving, impaired and distracted driving deaths.

None of this has anything to do with what political party or what ideology one belongs to. The market must want it and if it doesn't it will pass as another fad because they won't sell period.

By the way, I haven't read a ton about the new CEO's vision, but has it been stated that he/they want to do away with FP?

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I agree with what you are saying. Reducing deaths will be huge, and a great improvement from autonomous cars - whether they are powered by ICEs or electricity. Also, people who would rather be doing something else can do it and let the car drive itself. Just having those people who are on their phones already stop pretending like they are paying attention will make a big difference to rush hour traffic.

Minn19 said:

Why does everything need to get political?

There will be self driving autonomous driving cars soon. This doesn't mean there won't be self driving cars still available for many years to come. I for one welcome it because I can see it helping with drunk driving, impaired and distracted driving deaths.

None of this has anything to do with what political party or what ideology one belongs to. The market must want it and if it doesn't it will pass as another fad because they won't sell period.

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Everything doesn't get political but rather it is political. And in the context of what is to come in the automotive world we are seeing it played out on a grand scale. A big one - the last Administration nixed the agreed upon mid-term review of it's own (in essence) mandated CAFE legislation. Thankfully, it is being opened back up.

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/ep...s-and-light-duty-trucks-model-years-2022-2025

Every decision is bound in some way by government agency rule or mandate. Change the rules - change the product.

Epiphany said:

Everything doesn't get political but rather it is political. And in the context of what is to come in the automotive world we are seeing it played out on a grand scale. A big one - the last Administration nixed the agreed upon mid-term review of it's own (in essence) mandated CAFE legislation. Thankfully, it is being opened back up.

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/ep...s-and-light-duty-trucks-model-years-2022-2025

Every decision is bound in some way by government agency rule or mandate. Change the rules - change the product.

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I sort of agree. I get what you mean by from a regulation standpoint. But, from a consumer standpoint it doesn't need to be political. Younger people are not as into cars as they once were and it is pretty obvious from what I see during my commute everyday that people don't want to be driving. So consumers have a big voice in it as well. And they are not viewing it from a political lens. Just can I do anything else in the car while I'm stuck in traffic everyday for 1-2 hours or more.

Minn19 said:

But, from a consumer standpoint it doesn't need to be political. Younger people are not as into cars as they once were and it is pretty obvious from what I see during my commute everyday that people don't want to be driving. So consumers have a big voice in it as well. And they are not viewing it from a political lens.

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Consumers had no voice in legislation that would/will drastically change the automobile as we know it. Other than to vote. They may not have known it but they handed over the keys to the future of our passion to those clearly driven by ideology.

If young people or old people or whatever group want something, they can vote with their wallets and buy it. I have absolutely no problem with car manufacturers building what people want to buy.

The problem for me comes in when the government is making rules that are counter to what most people want. Most people seem to want pickups and SUVs based on what I see on the road. Many people seem to want large vehicles as well. This runs counter to the rules and regulations coming in and to the fake news I hear all too often. I have no problem whatsoever with autonomous vehicles, either. I think the people that don't want to drive shouldn't have to. But don't make a law requiring autonomous vehicles as "safety equipment". The two issues are similar in how they seem to be handled right now - electric and autonomous being forced in rather than allowing choice.

If people really want electrics, no laws are needed. Just get out of the way and let people buy what they want!

Haven't you heard Hack? The government always knows better.

Vonnegut, thanks for the heads up, many many years ago.

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

The global community will ultimately dictate which way we go, our elected leaders and their policies we support or challenge will determine the pace.

I am a diehard fossil fuel car guy, but I see the future of electric cars as a win win if they get the weight and range correct. I don't want to recharge after 200 miles.

Tesla built a plant not far away from where I live. The place is huge and they are pumping our batteries like crazy.

Epiphany said:

Consumers had no voice in legislation that would/will drastically change the automobile as we know it. Other than to vote. They may not have known it but they handed over the keys to the future of our passion to those clearly driven by ideology.

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This is why I'm saying people make it needlessly political. Your verbiage of utopian etc and everything is coming from a certain political viewpoint about regulations as well. Some people buy based on these criteria, but that is a very small percentage of the market.

Most buy on what their needs are. If they need a truck for work or just like the look they are going to buy regardless of who is in office or what the current EPA regs are. A good example is us buying the GT350s even though they have a gas guzzler tax. We wanted them so we bought them regardless.

There is a new group of consumers that don't want to bothered with anything car related. Down to filling it up with gas. No checking or worrying about when to change your oil etc etc. They want cars as maintenance/worry free as humanly possible.

Just like Kodak didn't think the digital camera was going to catch on and look what happened to them. Auto makers need to see what is coming to survive regardless of current regs or who is in power.

NVGT said:

I am a diehard fossil fuel car guy, but I see the future of electric cars as a win win if they get the weight and range correct. I don't want to recharge after 200 miles.

Tesla built a plant not far away from where I live. The place is huge and they are pumping our batteries like crazy.

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I thought about this for a long time, and I've concluded that not only will cars change in radical ways, car ownership will also disappear. The value proposition will be this: "why own a car when you can summon a vehicle that you pay for by the mile and that'll take you door to door faster than you could ever drive?"

Once human drivers are out of the equation, traffic movement won't need traffic lights or lanes or speed limits. In an all-autonomous system, vehicles will move from door to door without having to stop. It'll deliver a massive improvement in speed and efficiency.

JAJ said:

I thought about this for a long time, and I've concluded that not only will cars change in radical ways, car ownership will also disappear. The value proposition will be this: "why own a car when you can summon a vehicle that you pay for by the mile and that'll take you door to door faster than you could ever drive?"

Once human drivers are out of the equation, traffic movement won't need traffic lights or lanes or speed limits. In an all-autonomous system, vehicles will move from door to door without having to stop. It'll deliver a massive improvement in speed and efficiency.

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That's a very good observation. I'm not sure I've given it all that much thought but you do make some valid points.