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Stock GT Mani vs F150 Mani Dyno

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yeah, everyone who wants low end power should buy a pickup :crazy:
 

BmacIL

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yeah, everyone who wants low end power should buy a pickup :crazy:
I was very interested in this when the topic first came up, but after seeing the results, I'm not interested in reducing overall power output across the rev range (area under the curve). If it was just a shift in powerband and no loss, then it's a different conversation.
 

morgande

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IMHO, as cool of an idea this is, I know for fact that the Coyote mill in the F-150 is under-tuned to upsell the EcoBoost. They did this a long time ago, and it has everything to do with the CAFE and nothing to do with anything else. Perhaps there are gains to be had in the truck manifold IF the manifold was build on an application that wasn't limited by design from the factory. But the application IS limited in design from the factory, and you don't know where they limited it in. Maybe the manifold isn't as efficient as it could be? Maybe they retarded some of the timing? I don't know. What id do know is, I don't trust anything coming off the F150 mill to increase performance, and that application was limited from its true potential from the factory by design.

Ford should standardize the Coyote on the 5.2 block that underpins the Voodoo mill. You cannot replace displacement, and the .2 liters of air you get out of that block has show to be quite beneficial to making power even without the FPC.
 

ForYourOwnGood

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I was very interested in this when the topic first came up, but after seeing the results, I'm not interested in reducing overall power output across the rev range (area under the curve). If it was just a shift in powerband and no loss, then it's a different conversation.
Are we looking at the same graphs? Because I think you need to look again. The F150 manifold makes the same or more power literally everywhere until they cross at ~6300 RPM. If you consider from 6300-7000 to be "under the curve" then I guess we have some very different definitions.
 

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Eritas

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Are we looking at the same graphs? Because I think you need to look again. The F150 manifold makes the same or more power literally everywhere until they cross at ~6300 RPM. If you consider from 6300-7000 to be "under the curve" then I guess we have some very different definitions.
Re-read post #105
 

Eritas

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Again, if you're saying "under the curve" is past 6500 RPM you need to reconsider your definitions of the term. Don't you have some more threads to crap in about not living at the redline?
Re-read Post #105

If you shift at 7K, the GT has more area and will be faster. That's Milhouses point. If you shift at 6-6,500, the F150 has more. For daily driving and shifting below 5K, the F150 has more.

What driving are you doing? That will determine which one is better for you. :thumbsup:
 

Performance nut

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Do some passes with two cars with both IM installed. Maybe that will end the dispute.

PS: Low torque is useful for more than DD and trucks. Depending on layout, it can win auto-x's.
 

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So, ran tonight with the F150 IM. Ran at first with same tune I had with stock intake. It’s a Rob Shoemaker Flex Fuel tune and I have a PMAS as far as performance mods go. Ran with M/T ET R drag radials. With stock intake I ran a few weeks ago with DAs about 2300 and tonight with DAs about 1050 with the F150 IM. With stock IM, ran 7.99 @ 92. Tonight I ran 7.98 @ 92. Earth shattering results! LOL. Stock IM may have run slightly quicker with these DAs but that is just speculation. Car runs strong. I tried a tune that shifted 300 RPM quicker just to see if it would help or hurt times. With that tune, ran 8.08 @ 89. MPH definitely took a hit. Not sure if car needed time to adjust to that tune or not. Reloaded previous tune and MPH immediately went back to 92. So, take from that what you will. Just one person’s unscientific test. I would like to run again before season is done but I’m not sure if that will happen. Take that info and process it as you see fit.
 

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Performance nut

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So, ran tonight with the F150 IM. Ran at first with same tune I had with stock intake. It’s a Rob Shoemaker Flex Fuel tune and I have a PMAS as far as performance mods go. Ran with M/T ET R drag radials. With stock intake I ran a few weeks ago with DAs about 2300 and tonight with DAs about 1050 with the F150 IM. With stock IM, ran 7.99 @ 92. Tonight I ran 7.98 @ 92. Earth shattering results! LOL. Stock IM may have run slightly quicker with these DAs but that is just speculation. Car runs strong. I tried a tune that shifted 300 RPM quicker just to see if it would help or hurt times. With that tune, ran 8.08 @ 89. MPH definitely took a hit. Not sure if car needed time to adjust to that tune or not. Reloaded previous tune and MPH immediately went back to 92. So, take from that what you will. Just one person’s unscientific test. I would like to run again before season is done but I’m not sure if that will happen. Take that info and process it as you see fit.
Wondering if the new IM would benefit from an new tune. I see what you did; however, the tune is optimized for a different IM. I am now curious about this.
 

Volstang

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I did run a data log and will see if that warrants a tune update
 

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So, ran tonight with the F150 IM. Ran at first with same tune I had with stock intake. It’s a Rob Shoemaker Flex Fuel tune and I have a PMAS as far as performance mods go. Ran with M/T ET R drag radials. With stock intake I ran a few weeks ago with DAs about 2300 and tonight with DAs about 1050 with the F150 IM. With stock IM, ran 7.99 @ 92. Tonight I ran 7.98 @ 92. Earth shattering results! LOL. Stock IM may have run slightly quicker with these DAs but that is just speculation. Car runs strong. I tried a tune that shifted 300 RPM quicker just to see if it would help or hurt times. With that tune, ran 8.08 @ 89. MPH definitely took a hit. Not sure if car needed time to adjust to that tune or not. Reloaded previous tune and MPH immediately went back to 92. So, take from that what you will. Just one person’s unscientific test. I would like to run again before season is done but I’m not sure if that will happen. Take that info and process it as you see fit.
Doing a DA correction on both it looks like the F150 manifold is about 0.1 seconds slower in the 1/8th...and that will likely translate to 0.2 to 0.3 seconds in the 1/4 mile.
 

millhouse

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Are we looking at the same graphs? Because I think you need to look again. The F150 manifold makes the same or more power literally everywhere until they cross at ~6300 RPM. If you consider from 6300-7000 to be "under the curve" then I guess we have some very different definitions.
You aren't understanding the loss here. Take a look at the image below. I have shifted the F150 manifold up by 500 RPM to compare the two curves. The area in orange is what you are losing. The GT manifold produces far more horsepower under the curve...everywhere. Yes, the F150 shows more power at lower RPM, but that doesn't mean it's producing more power.

zcn5H4L.jpg
 

Eritas

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Ah yes that I also found weird and can agree on in terms of the weird drop. However once again the fact it doesn't show in the stock or F150 manifold makes me lean toward the tune. At best maybe some freak weird incident happened. However without more PP2 dynos running around or without another run things are simply inconclusive.
It is weird that your factory Ford PP2 tune (on the PP2 kit) looks as horrible as it does with all of the torque drop-outs and the jump in power near redline.

Thankfully [MENTION=18858]rob_s[/MENTION] just posted his PP2 dyno which has none of the problems that yours does. So this backs up my claim that there's either something wrong with YOUR car, with the PP2 install, or with YOUR PP2 tune when you did that pull. Once again, I acknowledge that your stock pull looks fine and the F150 pull without a proper tune does not have the problems your PP2 pull has.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60467&page=260
Had my car with the PP2 dyno'd today.

attachment.jpg


405 hp / 366 lb-ft on a Mustang Dyno.
His pull is a lot smoother, normal looking and does not have the torque drop-out at 3,700RPM, does not have the 'flat' power curve from 5,500-6,100RPM, or the aggressive HP jump at 6,300RPM that yours has:

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