Sponsored

2018 GT vs 2016 Camaro - Track Times Compared w/Video

brendon

Active Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Threads
2
Messages
32
Reaction score
19
Location
VA
First Name
brendon
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT PP
I think this is funny and sad that we need to compare the new Mustang with a Camaro that is two model years older? Doesn't anyone see the problem with this. The Camaro is the better performing car.
Yes, but the GP PP is a different car and cheaper which seems to keep going over peoples heads. Some people will buy a car because of a track time but most people buy the car they like.

Why do we keep splitting hairs over lap times and not considering price?

SS 1LE goes for about $40k OTD
GT PP goes for about $32 OTD
Sponsored

 

505STANG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Threads
0
Messages
316
Reaction score
42
Location
NM
Vehicle(s)
2012 5.0
As an HPDE instructors, cars like the Camaro 1LE are doing more for the sport than anything I have ever seen.

The fact that regular people can affordably buy these cars and take them straight to the track and then learn/get faster with no drama is a game changer.

Starting about a decade ago, you could do that with the Corvette Z06/Grand Sport, the Porsche Cayman/911 and BMW M3/M4/M2. But those cars were somewhat expensive.

The 1LE Camaro delivers a cars that costs roughly half of the crowd above and still hangs/beats them on the track.

Everyone had/has high hopes that the Ford would take the Mustang there. But they seem to always come up short. No Brembos on rear, no standard coolers (even on the mighty 2016 GT350), nickeling and diming from performance exhaust, Recaro seats, etc.

Very sad and unexplainable.

Why not have a single package, like 1LE, that gives you it all 6-pot front/4-pot rear brembos, wide/sticky tires, Recaro seats, performance exhaust, tight suspension with mag-shocks to make it livable on the street?

The formula is proven. Why can't Ford offer it?



P.S. Of course such a Mustang GT would immediately expose how poor the performance of the GT350 is. But hey that is progress.
Maybe Fords approach is about what sells, I am 100% confident the 1LE trim is a slow seller and maybe ford knows this, I know this many people (0) that say my car out corners your car LOL. Thing is Ford at least gives you options.

Ford Mustang V6 daily budget performance
Ford Mustang Ecoboost faster than the camaros t4
Ford Mustang GT, PP1, PP2
Ford Shelby GT350 Track car or cruiser if you want....(options)
Ford Shelby GT350R Track monster
Ford Shelby GT500 When it debuts- Smokes Any Camaro from the factory just like the last one did.....

Different Approaches....:shrug:
 

1320'

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Threads
19
Messages
3,758
Reaction score
1,616
Location
Medford,Oregon
Vehicle(s)
2011 Avenger...sadly
Yes, but the GP PP is a different car and cheaper which seems to keep going over peoples heads. Some people will buy a car because of a track time but most people buy the car they like.

Why do we keep splitting hairs over lap times and not considering price?

SS 1LE goes for about $40k OTD
GT PP goes for about $32 OTD
Not anymore they don't.

They're both quite a bit more expensive OTD now.
 

saf1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Threads
5
Messages
377
Reaction score
90
Location
Sacramento, Ca
Vehicle(s)
Black 2015 Mustang GT Performance Pack
This thread needs more cow bell. Here is what I find wrong with IMSA / SCCA, or most forms of auto racing today. This very thread whereas people are bickering back and forth while waving around their lower abdominal sexual organ yelling whos is bigger.

Seriously. IMSA/SCCA needs a class for this very reason that is labeled showroom floor sticker racing. You go in, buy a car, buy a helmet, fill it full of gas, and race it. Can't get any simpler than that. Once the race is done impound the bloody cars and transport them to the next track, factory maintenance only, factory OEM parts, tires, how it is sold, and repeat. Would be interesting to see and I bet a lot of the fishing stories posted in this thread would disappear and replaced with facts.
 

thehunterooo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Threads
23
Messages
3,255
Reaction score
1,062
Location
FL
Vehicle(s)
2006 Corvette
This thread needs more cow bell. Here is what I find wrong with IMSA / SCCA, or most forms of auto racing today. This very thread whereas people are bickering back and forth while waving around their lower abdominal sexual organ yelling whos is bigger.

Seriously. IMSA/SCCA needs a class for this very reason that is labeled showroom floor sticker racing. You go in, buy a car, buy a helmet, fill it full of gas, and race it. Can't get any simpler than that. Once the race is done impound the bloody cars and transport them to the next track, factory maintenance only, factory OEM parts, tires, how it is sold, and repeat. Would be interesting to see and I bet a lot of the fishing stories posted in this thread would disappear and replaced with facts.
You forgot stock tire pressure as well.
 

Sponsored

saf1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Threads
5
Messages
377
Reaction score
90
Location
Sacramento, Ca
Vehicle(s)
Black 2015 Mustang GT Performance Pack
@thehunteroo, @1320, of course. Sock is stock is stock. Buy on the right off the showroom floor, take them to the track, and have at it. Absolutely bone stock has sold by the manufacture...

All things being serious I actually read the whole thread. I know this sort of thing has been going on since we started buying horses I'm sure but man, lots of strong opinions here. I really would like a stock showroom racing movement take hold. Maybe put some of these discussions in check.
 

nastang87xx

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Threads
89
Messages
6,546
Reaction score
4,189
Location
Wisconsin
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT350 Track Pack
Haha, it's all in the wording. I don't think I've ever heard of a "track pack transmission".
To a point it's kinda true. The '16 Tech Pack and base cars have a different transmission number than the '16 Track Pack and R cars.
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,283
Reaction score
7,444
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
Haha, it's all in the wording. I don't think I've ever heard of a "track pack transmission".
On the GT350 forum they all know what it means. :cheers:
 

thehunterooo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Threads
23
Messages
3,255
Reaction score
1,062
Location
FL
Vehicle(s)
2006 Corvette
On the GT350 forum they all know what it means. :cheers:
When are you trading in to get a real car like the ZL1? You can have people come up to you in amazement! Want a group of people at 2am to come up to you at the gas station? Wow! What about a cop pulling along side you? Sweet!
 

Sponsored

Baron95

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2014
Threads
3
Messages
262
Reaction score
73
Location
CT
Vehicle(s)
2012 Mustang GT
What I'd like to know is how much that GT350 Track Pack Transmission retrofit cost.

How much did that owner spent, re=engineering a car that Ford engineered wrongly.

He bought a GT350. Then found out the thing overheated on track rendering it useless in that environment. Then purchased a "Track Pack Transmission", and coolers and lines, then removed her perfectly good transmission, did all the mods. All to end up with a car that is slower and have less cooling headroom than a showroom stock Camaro 1LE.

Hey, anyone can spend there money and do to their cars what they want. I'm all for that. But boy, the irony of having to do all that, just to take a performance car for a few laps on a track - wow, that is something to behold.
 

Hack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Threads
83
Messages
12,283
Reaction score
7,444
Location
Minneapolis
Vehicle(s)
Mustang, Camaro
When are you trading in to get a real car like the ZL1? You can have people come up to you in amazement! Want a group of people at 2am to come up to you at the gas station? Wow! What about a cop pulling along side you? Sweet!
I've really been wanting a Chevy for many years, but I don't think I'm good enough to own one. I need to spend a few years working out regularly and improving my diet first. Well and maybe I should go back to school and get an MBA or at least some kind of advanced degree.
 

saf1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Threads
5
Messages
377
Reaction score
90
Location
Sacramento, Ca
Vehicle(s)
Black 2015 Mustang GT Performance Pack
What I'd like to know is how much that GT350 Track Pack Transmission retrofit cost.

How much did that owner spent, re=engineering a car that Ford engineered wrongly.

He bought a GT350. Then found out the thing overheated on track rendering it useless in that environment. Then purchased a "Track Pack Transmission", and coolers and lines, then removed her perfectly good transmission, did all the mods. All to end up with a car that is slower and have less cooling headroom than a showroom stock Camaro 1LE.

Hey, anyone can spend there money and do to their cars what they want. I'm all for that. But boy, the irony of having to do all that, just to take a performance car for a few laps on a track - wow, that is something to behold.
You raise a good point. However, is this any different than say what GM ran into with the ZR1 engine vibration or brakes or any other stop sales order? Don't get me wrong, all mass produced cars & manufactures have these issues but still... I mean I don't know /shrug - maybe the owner of perceived GT350 with issues should join the class action lawsuit. I mean I would and the problem will get resolved if it hasn't already via the manufacture.

I do think the 1LE's data logger is slick though.
 

Baron95

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2014
Threads
3
Messages
262
Reaction score
73
Location
CT
Vehicle(s)
2012 Mustang GT
You raise a good point. However, is this any different than say what GM ran into with the ZR1 engine vibration or brakes or any other stop sales order?
Of course it is very different.

In the GT350 - Ford's Halo Performance Car - they *** KNEW*** that a a cooling package was needed for track work. And they deliberately left it off a the two most popular configuration (Base and Tech Pack), and even made it impossible to get it with the very popular Tech Pack config.

That is knowingly leaving off a cooling package that is required for enjoying a performance car on track.

The other examples you cited (vibration, stop sales, etc) are quality/design escapes, not previously known to the manufacture, and not deliberate.

Listen. There is no need to debate this as it relates to the GT350. Ford recognized its mistake and in 2017 made the minimum needed cooling package standard.

The *** only question *** in my mind is: Why are they doing it again with the PP2? Why leave the cooling package off, not offer it even as an option, and hide behind a statement in the owner's manual?

Makes no sense to me, particularly when the competition imposes no such drama on buyers.
 

millhouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2016
Threads
18
Messages
2,652
Reaction score
1,216
Location
Simpsonville SC
Vehicle(s)
2016 Ruby Red GT PP
Of course it is very different.

In the GT350 - Ford's Halo Performance Car - they *** KNEW*** that a a cooling package was needed for track work. And they deliberately left it off a the two most popular configuration (Base and Tech Pack), and even made it impossible to get it with the very popular Tech Pack config.

That is knowingly leaving off a cooling package that is required for enjoying a performance car on track.

The other examples you cited (vibration, stop sales, etc) are quality/design escapes, not previously known to the manufacture, and not deliberate.

Listen. There is no need to debate this as it relates to the GT350. Ford recognized its mistake and in 2017 made the minimum needed cooling package standard.

The *** only question *** in my mind is: Why are they doing it again with the PP2? Why leave the cooling package off, not offer it even as an option, and hide behind a statement in the owner's manual?

Makes no sense to me, particularly when the competition imposes no such drama on buyers.
Because Ford isn't making track cars, they are making street cars that can be driven at the track. More people will buy a PP2 at the new prices than the same PP2 with an extra $3k tacked on for the extra options required to make it "race ready".

Most people don't/won't run these cars for hours on end at the track. And of course, running in any type of sanctioned race voids the warranty.

Ford cares less about the 10-20 people bitching that the new PP2 won't be capable of running hot laps for hours on end than the majority that won't ever get the car to run in limp mode.
Sponsored

 
 




Top